Hi guys,

I have Punto III (Grande Punto) manufactured 2013, it's 1.4 8V engine. After heating up engine to operating temp I hear this noise, coming from 1st valve area: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k66bRDnrN1TXxNng5J3UZZkMcyDDtyt3/view?usp=sharing . I found also YT video with almost the same issue : . There are tons of videos about valve tapping, ticking, fuel injectors, but nobody says if he solved his issue and what was the rrot cause.
Do you have some experience with this type of high ticking sound? Info: sparks are new, checked spark cables, no errors in ECU, changed oil to factory default (Selenia K), new timing belt. Checked injectors via MultiECUscan - there's electric part check only and all injectors were ticking OK... So what it is? Injector or valve clearance?

Thank you very much!

Rado

Hi.

If it changes with temperature.. it is most likely a mechanical noise..

NOT the injector.

Charlie

Thank you very much Charlie for info! I'm also checking all other threads regarding this issue... ANd what do you think - car has only 55.000 km and it's 5 years old...isn't it so soon for valve clearance adjustment ?

Isn't valve clearance hydraulically adjusted on these engines? Hydraulic tappers.

The only way it would make noise with hydraulic tappers is, if one/more were stuck open ... by crap in oil.


The injectors are pretty noisy; I've got LPG and the lpg injectors are quieter than the petrol ones.

This is FIRE 199 engine (350A1000). There are tappets like...bucket turned upside down, with shim inserted on it. If there is hydraulic pressure from bottom side(empty side of tappet)...I don't know. But from videos it's not constructed from few parts...it's just "empty bucket". I also think that it's not injector, by listening it through screwdriver the sound wasnt so loud...and I can hear it on valve cover in 1st valve area. I also disconnected injectors one by one on idle, but sound was still there

Check the valve clearances..

At least you will have more information then..

I'm checking prices for this "repair". But - new info today - Hot iddle, ticking was there of course - I opened oil input and expected louder ticking from 1st piston valves but....nothing! Only classic "brrrrrrrrr" . So I took long screwdriver and checked sound of injector 1, then injectors 2, 3 and 4. Ticking sound from outside was synchronized with injector 1. It has also different clicking than other three. So it looks that inj 1 is guilty guy! It's still working ok, but...how long? This is really tricky issue...I'll also add STP aditive (1st time in my life ) into gas tank - for cleaning injectors and intake valves and we will see...

Unfortunately ticking sounds are almost the same for injectors (gasoline or LPG) and valves.
There is also VVT, fuel vapors system (forgot proper name), as a sound source.

If there was a timing belt job, why "lash" (valve clearance) wasn't checked?
Check clearances.
Slowacja? You should understand Polish guide or English version here on this forum.
Fuel additives may work or not - worth trying.
Another option is a injector swap (change between cylinders, shuffle them), check if sound "travels" along with injector number 1. But if you swap them, you can clean on the bench (better option than fuel additives).

You are right GrandePunto PL ;-) During timing belt change I asked them to check valve clearances...but they didn't do it! I asked why....they said "there must be whole valve case restored". I said whaaat? On engine which is running ok and is 5 years old??? Are you joking? So they loosed another customer I asked yhem what really is wrong with that head...but they cannot say....I'm talking to one guy who has injectors for 15 euro/piece. So - 1st I try additive, 2nd I'll buy used injector and 3rd is valve clearance. Regarding VVT - it's variable valve timing. You meant PCV - purge camshaft ventilation or valve - there is no PCV valve on this engine, only naked pipe from valve cover to intake.

Rado77 said:

.. Regarding VVT - it's variable valve timing. You meant PCV - purge camshaft ventilation or valve - there is no PCV valve on this engine, only naked pipe from valve cover to intake.

Click to expand...

He might have been thinking about fuel canister evap solenoid.
On some fiats it's under the intake manifold.

Yea, now I know....OK, I'll check it. But - there's connector on it as I remember with some rubber cover or something like that....how to unplug it? I'm lazy to remove flap again But it's on the right side of engine, and my sound is coming from left side (1st valve area). But I'll check it - I can disconnect cable on iddle and hear... But how to remove that connector pls?

VVT itself (solenoid and camshaft wheel) can make noises. And it is near cylinder 1.


How often do you change your oil? If you believe in "long life" bulsh*t, there's your problem.

I know all this info ;-) I also took apart VVT system on Renault Megane2 so I know how it's working, issues, sounds and what can cause which noise there. Anyway - I can remove cable on idle from dephaser's control valve...to make sure.
Regarding oil - I don't know how often previous owner changed it, but after buying that was the 1st thing - change oil to original Selenia K + original sparks NGK + cleaning flap + checking air filter ;-) Overal: engine is running well, no issues with idle or acceleration or engine sound....only this stupid ticking noise after reaching operational temperature !
Additional info: today I receive number from used injector - one guy is selling injectors from crashed Punto 1.2 8V for 15 Eur/15 $ per piece. Plus, in original dealer I can do valve clearances for 70 Eur including new valve cover gasket ;-)

So, today I checked ticking once again, and it looks that it's not going from timing belt side, but from the middle part. And also it looks that problem is not with injectors. Especialy if ticking noise rise after reaching engine operational temperature. Using screwdriver, I can hear this ticking anywhere on valve cover, but louder is in middle part. I don't know why I was fixed on 1st valve... So I will attend official service to make clearances. This is also good for correct combusting and presure inside cylinders. That's more important for me to check on used car...

Today's video of sound on warm engine + MES diagnostics data...maybe you can tell anything what you hear or see. For me is interesting for example Knock sensor signal for 4th valve - it's higher than for other valves...is it normal?
[ame]https://youtu.be/JaKQJaA9xOI[/ame]

Interesting noise. Of course listening to a recording on my laptop is very different from being there in the flesh with the "MK1 ear'ole" but it doesn't sound like a vvt problem to me - usually more "clunky". Injectors make a noise more like this but usually more sharply "ticky" - if you know what I mean? Have you tried pulling injector connectors, one at a time? If it's an injector then it should shut up when you pull it's connector plug. I don't think you will do any ecu damage by doing this - I've had engines running with damaged wiring/plugs which, when repaired, ran fine on all cylinders again - but if you do this it's at your own risk! Of course that cylinder will stop firing so the engine will run unevenly whilst you have the connector plug disconnected and, almost certainly a fault code will be set which will later have to be erased.

Listening to both your first recording and this second one have you noticed how it comes and goes a bit? The ticking noise is not always the same is it? As you say the cam followers on these engines are solid with adjusting shims. Cam followers are designed to rotate in their bores as the cam lobe operates them so that wear is equalized. (if the follower did not rotate then the same surface on the follower would be rubbed by the same parts of the cam lobe every time it was operated and wear would rapidly develop).

Now imagine the cam follower (possibly cam lobe too) with localized damage. As the follower slowly rotates in it's guide the maximum wear areas will only sometimes be lined up. So when the worn/damaged surfaces are lined up the ticking will be loud. When relatively undamaged surfaces are working together the noise will be much less or, maybe even not audible.

So, if I were a betting man, which I learned years ago is a mug's game, I would have the cam cover off and look very carefully at the cam followers. Unfortunately when the noise is loud like this, I will be surprised if it can be rectified simply by re-shiming the valve clearances as I would be expecting to see scoring, or damage of some sort, to the surface of the cam lobe.

However, as there's nothing to stop me being optimistic, I hope you find I'm wrong and that it turns out to be something easily and cheaply repaired.

Good luck and kind regards
Jock

Hi Jock . Thanx for your answer! ;-) Yes I unplugged injectors one by one on idle . Ticking was still there, so it really looks like valve clearance. I'll give it to authorized service for adjusting. It costs appr 70 euro including price of their work and new cam cover gasket. I discussed it also on our local Slovakia forum and guys said the same - valve adjustment. So thank you once more ;-)

Oh, Just realized I said nothing about your knock sensor. From what I know of them a knock sensor is a piezoelectric wafer which generates a small voltage/current in direct response to vibration, the bigger the vibration the bigger it's output. You can make it "jump" by cracking a spanner or small hammer on the block beside where it's fitted. The ticking sound you have is bound to be producing vibrations which are not normally there and, if it's cam related, then it will be occurring once every complete firing cycle (2 crankshaft revs). So it will be experienced at the same frequency as the firing cycle. If it happens to be in synchronization with No 4 cylinder firing then it might explain the large reading for no 4 as it will be added to the normal signal generated when 4 fires? You'll only really know if you check again after you've sorted out whatever is doing the "ticking"

Please do let us all know how it turns out won't you.
Kind regards
Jock

I cannot say if knock signal from 4 is matching ticking sound...but what I could do is measurement from knock sensor on cold engine, where's no ticking... I'll inform you about progress ;-) Anyway car is going good, acceleration is good, really quick starts, eveything ok...just this crazy ticking after reaching operational temperature