Hi
I have been told I need a flywheel change, I had a new clutch about a year ago so that is ok could someone give me a rough price please its a Grande 1.4 petrol 2008.

Why have you been told that ?

Yup, as Bernie says, Why? Presumably the flywheel was closely examined when the clutch was changed? Unless it's been grossly abused it shouldn't have worn out in a year! It isn't a dual mass in a petrol so it can't be that. I'm hard pushed to imagine why. Has the box been pulled, can it be examined or is this someones opinion? if so what are the symptoms? A single mass (or, in old language, solid) flywheel would normally last the life of the engine. I did once come across a ring gear which had been spinning on the flywheel and destroyed the fit so much that a new ring just would not grip - a new flywheel was the only answer for that one. but I only saw it once.

Please do tell, I'm fascinated to know!
Jock

Sent a message I am new to this forum so sorry if I’ve got the reply/messages wrong

Robbie62 said:

Sent a message I am new to this forum so sorry if I’ve got the reply/messages wrong

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Hi Robbie. I've replied to your message but as it's the first PM I've ever done anywhere I hope it got through to you? Would you mind posting here to confirm?

Just to keep everyone up to speed, what Robbie was describing sounded to me like ring gear tooth damage - which would explain the recommendation he has been given to renew the flywheel.

Just a quick thought which "flitted" (as they increasingly do these days) through my mind. If this ring gear actually is the problem It's likely that the tooth damage is very localised. If you stick it in a high gear, 3rd or greater - which makes it easier to turn the engine - and move the car, forward if possible as it's better for the engine -especially if it has a chain driven cam (which the Punto doesn't), with the ignition switch off, for about a foot or so you will turn the flywheel so presenting some "new" teeth for the starter to "chew" on. Most engines have one or two positions, dictated by the piston position in relation to compression, in which they always stop so these few teeth on the ring gear will wear much more than all the rest. Of course if you have a hill near you then a "bump" start becomes an attractive alternative?

Thank you for all the advise I will try anything until I can get confirmation of a replacement flywheel
Robbie

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

... Most engines have one or two positions, dictated by the piston position in relation to compression, in which they always stop ...

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With a four in line, the natural rest position would be at mid stroke, where all 4 cylinders are aligned, with pressure equilibrium for 2 of them and valve (intake or exhaust) open for the 2 others ... so could be either 90 or 270 °. Therefore we should find two "worn spots" on the toothed ring ;-)

Cheers, Bernie

Robbie62 said:

Thank you for all the advise I will try anything until I can get confirmation of a replacement flywheel
Robbie

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I'm not sure how "practical" you are Robbie? If you remove the starter then you can view the ring gear directly but you'd need to disconnect the battery and it is a bit of a "phaf" to get at the fixings. I was very worried that the radio would loose it's code when we did this on my boy's 2012 Punto 1.4 8valve but in fact the body module seems to remember it so it picked it up automatically on reconnection.

I don't know the 16 valve engine at all but if yours is an 8 valve there is a sheet metal plate covering off the bottom of the bell housing which can be quite easily removed - you would need the car up on stands to be safe though (please don't try it on a jack alone will you?) With this guard plate removed you can see the ring gear teeth but you are looking at the side which doesn't wear, the engine side. You need to examine the side of the teeth which are facing away from you, on the gearbox side. Sounds confusing doesn't it? But if you shine a torch on it and angle your view a little you'll see fine. Remember you'll need to rotate the engine so you can view the whole circumference of the flywheel. If you're not sure what you're doing please don't put yourself at risk. On the other hand, if you know someone who is of a practical turn of mind who might help, removing this plate is pretty simple. But, please please please, not supported solely on a jack - especially not the excuse for a jack that most manufacturers include in the wheel changing kit (if you're lucky enough to even have that!). In my youth I would have gained access for a job like this by looking for a nice really high kerb, running two wheels - either side will do - up on the kerb and lying in the gutter. A nice high kerb can give surprising work room. The only down side is when you get up nice and early on a Saturday ready to tackle "that job" only to find a neighbour has parked there! I had a couple of reserve locations memorised just in case! Of course it gets quite unpleasant if it rains!

PS. (added 45 mins after original post). Hold on Jock. The starter motor is mounted on the engine side of the bell housing and is pre-engaged type so wear will be seen on engine side of ring gear teeth? right? Orientation perception going on here! Now we all know where my youngest boy's dyslexic tendencies come from! Cut me a bit of slack though, I'm contending with Mrs Jock's highly opinionated sister who arrived last night and will stay until after new year! A lot of time will be spent in the garage and gardening, weather permitting!

Thank you again if it was summer I might have had a go but at 62 and winter I think ill leave it to someone younger. The last bloke said that he did use a camera before he put the second new starter in and said he thought he saw damage (thought he did)? so I am going to go straight for a removal, inspection and replacement I think. By the way because I have a new starter fitted that is going to get wrecked if I don't get this flywheel sorted I suppose.
Any approx. figures for the job so I can compare with quotes
Many thanks
Robbie

We still don't know WHY you've been told to replace the flywheel ...

Robbie62 said:

Thank you again if it was summer I might have had a go but at 62 and winter I think ill leave it to someone younger. The last bloke said that he did use a camera before he put the second new starter in and said he thought he saw damage (thought he did)? so I am going to go straight for a removal, inspection and replacement I think. By the way because I have a new starter fitted that is going to get wrecked if I don't get this flywheel sorted I suppose.
Any approx. figures for the job so I can compare with quotes
Many thanks
Robbie

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Becky, our Panda - 1.2 8 valve - is getting a new clutch tomorrow. So similar labour content in that the gearbox needs to come out. Quoted £290 (not inc vat I think) by our local Fiat independent, for the whole job and that includes the price of the clutch kit (Valeo).

Sorry for this Robbie but a jolly good look needs to be taken at that starter before nailing it back on the engine. The pinion gear is quite small and could be already damaged if the ring gear damage is substantial. Putting it back with a damaged pinion gear is just going to wreck the ring gear again! as I said - sorry! however Pinions always used to be available seperately? Maybe some money could be saved, if the pinion is damaged, by renewing just this component?

Bernievarian said:

We still don't know WHY you've been told to replace the flywheel ...

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Maybe his mechanic doesn't know how/hasn't the equipment to renew just the ring gear?

Hopefully you all know there are two kind of pinions (different tooth #) used on GPs ??

Cheers, Bernie

No I didn't but thanks for the info, reference the flywheel that's what I have been told if the ring gear can be changed by a competent mechanic does that make the job cheaper.
Cheers
Robbie

Robbie62 said:

No I didn't but thanks for the info, reference the flywheel that's what I have been told if the ring gear can be changed by a competent mechanic does that make the job cheaper.
Cheers
Robbie

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Maybe a little? a lot of the cost will be in removing the gearbox. Price of new flywheel Vs price of ring gear and labour to change - not too sure? If not paying labour on any of it it would be a cheap job. Still, be glad you don't live in the 'States. My sister pays "silly money" whenever a tradesman of any persuasion is needed. She lives in rural Massachusetts.

Thanks anyway I suppose I just need to get on with it find the best solution and cost and when complete you can have the whole story on here to read
All the best
Robbie

Generally speaking a competent mechanic will be cheaper than a car dealer's garage. Just think about all the stuff the dealer HAVE TO 'provide' to its customers (luxury showroom, toilets, wait/rest area, coffee machine etc.) and you'll understand easily why the 'man in blue overall' doesn't (usually) ask for silly money ;-).

Regarding the fly-wheel: replace the entire part or only the ring gear (not even sure it can be done) would cost the same, labour wise, and I would be more confident with a new whole unit. Job itself should be done in less than 4 hours, including starter replacement; anyone planing more time does probably ask too much …

Keep us informed ! cheers, Bernie

Thank you Bernie I definitely will
Robbie

Update
Question am I just living in hope this afternoon will be 48 hrs since I put a fully charged battery on and so far 10 starts and not a problem is this just luck I ask myself I’ll post again tonight when I’m at work I’ve about 4 more starts before I go to work this afternoon
Fingers crossed
Robbie