I was about to fit an engine heater in the coolant hose today, so I removed the intercooler inlet hose to get more space - and got an unexpected oil shower!

The engine block front cover is leaking some oil, the idle has been poor a few times lately and the boost pressure and engine torque has had some mysterious digital dips from time to time. I performed some data logging recently and confirmed that it was the boost pressure that caused the behavior. However, it doesn't happen every time.

So, I called the local Fiat garage before and they suggested a clogged EGR valve, alternatively worn out turbo thrust bearing (axial lash). I suspect something with the crankcase ventilation. One issue is that those engines are extremely rare in Sweden, so no-one has any experience at all..

Problem: I cannot identify the EGR or any oil separator to the crankcase ventilation. Do anyone know if there is an EGR valve and where those components are located? What do they look like on this engine?

I checked the turbo with an endoscope and the impeller looks perfectly fine. I haven't managed to open the hose clamps on its intake, so I don't now if the bearings are worn, but I don't think so.

It has made 70000 km and we have had it since new.

Any other ideas?

Money would still be on a turbo. If it is leaking oil then it will come from behind the impeller and not be visable on the front face, this can spin at up to 100,000 rpm so any oil that does get on the blades is soon flung off with force.

Good point. So, some hours later - the turbo shaft is axially 100 % solid.

Since the front/timing cover is leaking and there is oil in the intercooler and oil before the impeller half way up to the intake air filter, I assume something is causing an elevated crankcase pressure. What?

I still haven't found any EGR stuff and suspect they arrange with it internally with the valve timing. If that is the case, crankcase ventilation and piston rings remains on suspect list.

Last Christmas the clutch sun-spring fell apart, now ....

Nr084 said:

So, I called the local Fiat garage before and they suggested a clogged EGR valve

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Nr084 said:

I still haven't found any EGR stuff

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I wonder who does... Are you sure it's a FIAT dealer?

I accidentally pulled the bottom hose off my 6yo, Twinair's intercooler, and found a quantity of oil.
I'd say it was about 100ml, and I guessed the intercooler was acting as a catch can.
However, I'm completely clueless on this subject, so now you've got me worried.

loserscar said:

I accidentally pulled the bottom hose off my 6yo, Twinair's intercooler, and found a quantity of oil.
I'd say it was about 100ml, and I guessed the intercooler was acting as a catch can.
However, I'm completely clueless on this subject, so now you've got me worried.

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I had this with TD.

Basic Physics..

The hot engine vapours ..pass through the EGR on their way to being re.burnt through the engines air intake.

On my TD this hot oil laden gas was fed through the intercooler (a radiator carrying air instead of water)

The oil comes out of suspension against the cold metal.. but unless you are keepimg the airflow UP.. this will just collect in the low points.


My oil laden cooler was discovered at @100k

. Symptom was excess smoke on boost..

As it would suddenly push a volume of liquid oil into the combustion chambers.


Locating EGR . LOOK ON THE PARTS FISCHE ?

Well, that oil quantity may be what you could expect after >7 years and >70000 km's. By dad is on that track as well, considering "was that all oil you got out of the intercooler?"

It's just that my experience is that I haven't seen it on other turbo cars unless there has been some issue with the engine. But for sure, it is the lowest point, the air cools down - and the speed decreases dramatically at that point as well.

So, I will put the pieces together again and leave it on its regular service, it is time for that anyway. Then the mechanics can judge if everything is as it should, or not.



Regarding the "local Fiat garage": They are not authorized today, but have been around since early 70's and are a true institution among Italian car enthusiasts in the region :worship:. The founder drives an original Abarth 124 Spider, has worked for both Bertone and Pinninfarina in the 50's & 60's, he manufactures new body panels for Lamborghinis by hand and they have some rare Alfa Romeo prototype stuff from the 50's in their possession. But, the only TwinAir they ever seen is mine.

My old JTD diesel collects a bit of oil in the intercooler and there's a catch tank to trap any oil mist that gets blown out of the crank vents.. so I think it's pretty normal.

In the old days non-turbo cars used to vent to atmosphere but then, for air quality reasons, they got changed to vent into the airbox. On a turbo I guess some oil will always by-pass the turbo impeller seals, so the manufacturer has to drain it somewhere or it would eventually gum up the turbine housing.

If you clean all the oil out of the inlet manifold, intercooler.. and all the hoses, then it will probably run better.

Also check the MAP sensor, if your car has one, and it's on the inlet manifold... since a lot of oil in the manifold can find its way into the MAP and gum it up. It should get hot enough to stay clean but it can also be overwhelmed. My old beast had an overfilled crankcase so the excess oil was being forced into the manifold. It looked like a oil tanker had run aground in there the first time I took it apart. Now I keep the oil level at 80% of MAX, to give it some extra space in the crankcase.


Ralf S.

Nr084 said:

Well, that oil quantity may be what you could expect after >7 years and >70000 km's. By dad is on that track as well, considering "was that all oil you got out of the intercooler?"

It's just that my experience is that I haven't seen it on other turbo cars unless there has been some issue with the engine. But for sure, it is the lowest point, the air cools down - and the speed decreases dramatically at that point as well.

So, I will put the pieces together again and leave it on its regular service, it is time for that anyway. Then the mechanics can judge if everything is as it should, or not.



Regarding the "local Fiat garage": They are not authorized today, but have been around since early 70's and are a true institution among Italian car enthusiasts in the region :worship:. The founder drives an original Abarth 124 Spider, has worked for both Bertone and Pinninfarina in the 50's & 60's, he manufactures new body panels for Lamborghinis by hand and they have some rare Alfa Romeo prototype stuff from the 50's in their possession. But, the only TwinAir they ever seen is mine.

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The EGR valve is near the thermostat. It's about 10cm long and has very fine cooling fins on it, a bit like a motorcycle cylinder. It will have an electrical connector plug on the end.


Ralf S.

I got a "heluva" fright when I disconnected the boost pipe on my 1999 Cordoba 1.9tdi when it was about 10 years old and experienced the same oil contamination problems. After extensive and lengthy investigations the only source I could find was the crankcase breather which was feeding oil vapour into the inlet side of the turbo. I tried fiddling around with a home made catch can with some success but it wasn't the whole answer. In the end, about 18 months later, after again finding oil in the pipe, I drilled a small hole (about eighth inch) in the bottom of the lowest pipework in the system because I was worried about the possibility of the engine "running away" on this oil. I ran that car for 19 years and never saw liquid oil in the intake piping again - the hole was so small I noticed no difference in performance. I never noticed any oil stains on the ground where she was parked either but I did wipe the pipes clean each year before the MOT!

3.0 drill.. nice diy touch

varesecrazy said:

3.0 drill.. nice diy touch

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Thanks Charlie. Afraid I'm still not "metricated" even after all these years! I can easily imagine what 2 thou, 15 thou or 25 thou feels like but have no idea what .2 or .02 mm is? Got a conversion chart pinned to the inside of my garage cabinet though so I manage.

Did my best.. its an International forum.

Apparently in Canada ..

They have a 'Metric Thou'...!!

I cannot remember if its a 'Micron'..?

Or something a bit bigger.

Thousands of a decimetre ..anyone..!!

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Thanks Charlie. Afraid I'm still not "metricated" even after all these years! I can easily imagine what 2 thou, 15 thou or 25 thou feels like but have no idea what .2 or .02 mm is? Got a conversion chart pinned to the inside of my garage cabinet though so I manage.

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1/8" in old terms

John202020 said:

1/8" in old terms

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Lost me there..??

Ralf S. said:

The EGR valve is near the thermostat. It's about 10cm long and has very fine cooling fins on it, a bit like a motorcycle cylinder. It will have an electrical connector plug on the end.


Ralf S.

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Thanks Ralf. I guess the thermostat is on the left side of the cylinder head, where the radiator hose comes back. But. I still don't find anything close to what you described. Since it suffers from several issues and is due for service, I have put this issue aside for now. Let's see what they find at service - and if they find an EGR valve ...

varesecrazy said:

Did my best.. its an International forum.

Apparently in Canada ..

They have a 'Metric Thou'...!!

I cannot remember if its a 'Micron'..?

Or something a bit bigger.

Thousands of a decimetre ..anyone..!!

Click to expand...

Imperial measurements - It was one of the many good things about visiting my daughter when they lived in Southern Maryland. We would go over for three weeks to a month at a time and they were there for five years so we got to know the neighbours really well. The fellow who lived in the next street over was rebuilding a 1950's Corvette and we struck up quite a friendship over it. Of course everything was imperial, valve clearances (valve lash in yankee speak), plug gaps, even had points for me to "fiddle" with, and a 4 barrel carb (two of the chokes, primaries I think, were very weird with variable venturis just like the old Ford VV carb which gave so much trouble on Sierras etc). Slow running mixture screws and all! lovely! He had hoped to have it on the road for the last thanksgiving before my son in law's secondment came to an end and he was going to drive me round the town in it but, just didn't finish it in time, but at least I got to hear that lovely lazy deep throb those old V8's make.

Found this thread trying to work out why I had a load of oil pour out of the intercooler today... 50k-ish miles 2014 twinair, if I had to put a guess on the amount of oil it was about half a can of coke.

system11 said:

Found this thread trying to work out why I had a load of oil pour out of the intercooler today... 50k-ish miles 2014 twinair, if I had to put a guess on the amount of oil it was about half a can of coke.

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You mean it came out when you inverted it?

If it came out while still in the car.. thats bad.

Came out of the bottom hose outlet when I pulled the hose off. Picked up a spare too as part of a full slam panel, exactly the same thing.