Given the recent blow with my Panda, and even consideration as to selling it in the New Year, I was looking into motorised scooters. Though initially I didn't like the idea, some of the things on offer look quite nice.

Seems a cheap way to get about, and a fairly simple level of engineering involved?

Saw a Honda and then a Suzuki.

Going to keep looking and learning about them... haven't done an insurance quote yet.. Mind you, surely one doesn't do so many miles and petrol fill ups on a little thing like that?

A good idea?

SB1500 said:

Given the recent blow with my Panda, and even consideration as to selling it in the New Year, I was looking into motorised scooters. Though initially I didn't like the idea, some of the things on offer look quite nice.

Seems a cheap way to get about, and a fairly simple level of engineering involved?

Saw a Honda and then a Suzuki.

Going to keep looking and learning about them... haven't done an insurance quote yet.. Mind you, surely one doesn't do so many miles and petrol fill ups on a little thing like that?

A good idea?

Click to expand...

insurance will be a bargain,
but the riding kit costs a LOT, as does getting a licence..
and it'll still cost you a fair few quid to buy and service.

Charlie

varesecrazy said:

insurance will be a bargain,
but the riding kit costs a LOT, as does getting a licence..
and it'll still cost you a fair few quid to buy and service.

Charlie

Click to expand...

Doing a quote now, bloody hell!! £434 for a year, and in fact, £234 (if I say I have that CBT test)


I wonder if we'd be able to service it ourselves like we do with the Panda atm.

Logic tells me as its cheaper and simpler to buy, then yes, but at the same time.. maybe they can't be used and take abuse like a car and require more servicing? hmm

the kit is @£800 new, but of course it fetches virtually nothing used in winter

bike - from @£400 for older / reliable,

do you know anybody that can do the basics of maint..??

the bonus of a bike for many is being able to get easy access + FREE parking to city centres .

TBH - IF you get the bike + kit at the lower end..,
you've maybe got the option of parking-up the panda for a few months , and fix it at your leisure..,
the cashing in of car ins. could almost fund the bike..

varesecrazy said:

the kit is @£800 new, but of course it fetches virtually nothing used in winter

bike - from @£400 for older / reliable,

do you know anybody that can do the basics of maint..??

the bonus of a bike for many is being able to get easy access + FREE parking to city centres .

TBH - IF you get the bike + kit at the lower end..,
you've maybe got the option of parking-up the panda for a few months , and fix it at your leisure..,
the cashing in of car ins. could almost fund the bike..

Click to expand...

What sort of kit do I need, minimum?

That depends, can I park it on the street without insurance, so long as it's MOT'd and taxed?

SB1500 said:

What sort of kit do I need, minimum?

That depends, can I park it on the street without insurance, so long as it's MOT'd and taxed?

Click to expand...

Helmet, gloves (good quality leather as if you fall off, these take the brunt of it), a good jacket, waterproof, and waterproof trousers as well, and good boots. As varesecrazy says, £400 is adequate, but you can spend a lot more. Don't buy cheap. It nees to keep you warm, dry, and protected in a spill.

No matter how well you wrap up, it will be cold and miserable in the winter. Whilst I passed my bike and car tests at 17, didn't buy my own car until 24. Did many winters on the bike, even in snow. As you get older, the comfort of a warm dry car leaves the bike neglected. Sold it end 2003. Still miss it though, but no use for one really. Can't commute on it.

Servicing is similar to a car, but smaller. If you're able to lift it, proper lifting tables are available, working on it becomes easier, otherwise you spend a lot of time on your knees. Research a manual, like a Haynes before buying the bike. At least it will fit inside a garage if you have one. Leaving it outside regularly requires a very good lock, ideally chain it to a lamppost or railing, as the whole thing can be lifted into a van.

A used small bike can be great, or a money pit. Young people tend to use and abuse them, then sell them on. So you might just change one project for another.

Visit a dealer and price up the clothing.
Visit your local training scheme and talk to them about timescale and costs. They'll all be enthusiasts. (Been there, done that too. Taught learner motorcyclists 1979-1984)

I love my scooter, it's one of my favorite things about living in Taiwan. They are so cheap and repair shops everywhere.

Mine is a 150cc bored out to around 180, so much fun.

I usually drive around in shorts and sandals, in rain I just wear a plastic rain mac and in winter my normal coat ?

I had a scooter in the UK too, the only "kit" I bought for that was a pair of very good waterproof gloves with wrist protectors on them.

Tbh though, compared to Taiwanese driving, UK drivers are safe as houses!

SB1500 said:

What sort of kit do I need, minimum?

That depends, can I park it on the street without insurance, so long as it's MOT'd and taxed?

Click to expand...

to park on the road, pretty sure you'll need all 3, as you need mot and ins for the tax to be valid = otherwise it's SORN

however renting a garage from the council( or a local / neighbour) could make that AND the bike secure for relatively little money.
consider the fact - fixed vs unfixed is @£800 margin on your panda


KIT;

I'd want a NEW helmet and gloves,
the 2 things that'll hit the ground 1st - and are the most important to you,

but the rest goes OVER your normal clothes , and is out in the weather so "barely used" can be a bargain,
both jacket and trousers will have "armour" on all the ( your) joints, elbows , knees , hips, elbows, shoulders

I've still got 30 year old scars from a 10 mph moped tumble in denim,
so any UK vehicle has the potential to give some serious "gravel rash".

personally I would get a 125 cc 4-stroke motorcycle,
as they are a better physical size , have bigger - more stable- wheels, and are MANUAL , so can be bump-started if necessary ,

scooters tend to be all twist'n'go - AUTO, and have smaller wheels,

Weather protection - marginally better with a scooter - but if it rains you get wet,
and COLD - well that's a "given".

I've owned a bike since I was 5,
gave up road riding when I was 18 ( car) , but have had trail / enduro bikes since,
change of job in mid-thirties meant I bought a new Supermoto for the daily commute, 20 mile journey 1 hour saved - AND FREE parking.

did 4 full summers and winters,
then changed job again, bike sat unused for 6 months so sold, and just have fun projects now,

my "NEW" kit at the job start was bought in a Half-price Jan sale, and has lasted 15 years without issue.

I bit of advice :AVOID Chinese made,
in the UK they are 1/3 of the price new, and the quality is "patchy" at best,

used Japanese is a far safer bet, as you'll be able to get parts for it far easier.

portland_bill said:

Helmet, gloves (good quality leather as if you fall off, these take the brunt of it), a good jacket, waterproof, and waterproof trousers as well, and good boots. As varesecrazy says, £400 is adequate, but you can spend a lot more. Don't buy cheap. It nees to keep you warm, dry, and protected in a spill.

No matter how well you wrap up, it will be cold and miserable in the winter. Whilst I passed my bike and car tests at 17, didn't buy my own car until 24. Did many winters on the bike, even in snow. As you get older, the comfort of a warm dry car leaves the bike neglected. Sold it end 2003. Still miss it though, but no use for one really. Can't commute on it.

Servicing is similar to a car, but smaller. If you're able to lift it, proper lifting tables are available, working on it becomes easier, otherwise you spend a lot of time on your knees. Research a manual, like a Haynes before buying the bike. At least it will fit inside a garage if you have one. Leaving it outside regularly requires a very good lock, ideally chain it to a lamppost or railing, as the whole thing can be lifted into a van.

A used small bike can be great, or a money pit. Young people tend to use and abuse them, then sell them on. So you might just change one project for another.

Visit a dealer and price up the clothing.
Visit your local training scheme and talk to them about timescale and costs. They'll all be enthusiasts. (Been there, done that too. Taught learner motorcyclists 1979-1984)

Click to expand...

I'll make a shopping list of some decent kit then, wouldn't be one for risking anything less ideal. Spoke to some people who mentioned how dangerous it could be, and how winter could be uncomfortable. Though am I right to think with the right kit you can be warm / comfortable.

It seems maybe I should have done this rather than try to run a car at uni. I mean, I don't even have enough money for new shoes or a haircut because it's all been going on the Panda. I enjoy the learning, fixing and maintaining but it's quite intense and expensive now beyond what I can sustain :-(

Going to contact a dealer in the new year and find out more about training. Would more than likely be a new one if I did, as there's plenty of good used ones surely on AutoTrader etc, but when you click 'Northern Ireland only' goes down to less than 30 :-(

If it can last from 2017 to 2020 then I think 2000 will go quite far, cost wise?

ben said:

I love my scooter, it's one of my favorite things about living in Taiwan. They are so cheap and repair shops everywhere.

Mine is a 150cc bored out to around 180, so much fun.

I usually drive around in shorts and sandals, in rain I just wear a plastic rain mac and in winter my normal coat ?

I had a scooter in the UK too, the only "kit" I bought for that was a pair of very good waterproof gloves with wrist protectors on them.

Tbh though, compared to Taiwanese driving, UK drivers are safe as houses!

Click to expand...

It's great to have a reply from the owner (awesome Forum, btw!). Waterproof sound like a good call!

varesecrazy said:

to park on the road, pretty sure you'll need all 3, as you need mot and ins for the tax to be valid = otherwise it's SORN

however renting a garage from the council( or a local / neighbour) could make that AND the bike secure for relatively little money.
consider the fact - fixed vs unfixed is @£800 margin on your panda


KIT;

I'd want a NEW helmet and gloves,
the 2 things that'll hit the ground 1st - and are the most important to you,

but the rest goes OVER your normal clothes , and is out in the weather so "barely used" can be a bargain,
both jacket and trousers will have "armour" on all the ( your) joints, elbows , knees , hips, elbows, shoulders

I've still got 30 year old scars from a 10 mph moped tumble in denim,
so any UK vehicle has the potential to give some serious "gravel rash".

personally I would get a 125 cc 4-stroke motorcycle,
as they are a better physical size , have bigger - more stable- wheels, and are MANUAL , so can be bump-started if necessary ,

scooters tend to be all twist'n'go - AUTO, and have smaller wheels,

Weather protection - marginally better with a scooter - but if it rains you get wet,
and COLD - well that's a "given".

I've owned a bike since I was 5,
gave up road riding when I was 18 ( car) , but have had trail / enduro bikes since,
change of job in mid-thirties meant I bought a new Supermoto for the daily commute, 20 mile journey 1 hour saved - AND FREE parking.

did 4 full summers and winters,
then changed job again, bike sat unused for 6 months so sold, and just have fun projects now,

my "NEW" kit at the job start was bought in a Half-price Jan sale, and has lasted 15 years without issue.

I bit of advice :AVOID Chinese made,
in the UK they are 1/3 of the price new, and the quality is "patchy" at best,

used Japanese is a far safer bet, as you'll be able to get parts for it far easier.

Click to expand...

My uncle seems to reckon we'd get to the bottom of it eventually, problem being I have nowhere to SORN park it. 800 is quite a lot :-/ It'll be hard to part with the Panda. He keeps reminding me how 'at the same time, nothing could go wrong - you never know'

The ones I'm looking at are both 110cc , the Honda I linked is also available for 110cc. This seems to be a good balance between adequate performance and cost. As it's new, surely the whole automatic and electronic start should be fine for a number of years?

Won't good quality clothes keep the 'wet' to a minimum? At one point I was all prepared to take the bicycle to uni, so I suppose it's an improvement with an engine given I'd still be able to make it to some less ideal cycling road destinations.



This seems like the right sort of thing to do, though I'd hate selling the Panda, I simply can't afford it. I am certain of one thing, my next car will be a new Panda. I enjoy the car so bloody much. Just wish I could afford to! lol

Check you have category A on your licence as a provisional entitlement. You may need to apply to DVLA to have it added.

Autotrader is expensive.

Try Gumtree. Freeads..and similar in your area.

New is still VERY expensive..depreciation is BAD

Well, the Panda as it stands is now 'fine' for another while. We got the big issue promoting the idea of buying a scooter sorted.

The idea still lingers, and the cost of the car - even without repairs - is £93 a month for insurance, +£12 a month for tax, £80 a month in petrol. Quite a lot really!

The car could probably fetch about £1000-£1200 if I found the right buyer in an ideal world.. A dealer not so long ago offered £1000 so I reckon the extra £200 with a private sale if need be. Especially since I have a large folder of invoices for all the parts we've done to it and the Fiat service in February etc.

The scooter still seems a bit dangerous (zero star safety, as with all bikes! and a lot of people telling me I won't like it in winter or rainy weather.

Maybe I'm getting too into the idea of a shiny new scooter over an old car and I should be.

I also am unsure of what the longest journey I could do on a scooter would be realistically!

SB1500 said:

I also am unsure of what the longest journey I could do on a scooter would be realistically!

Click to expand...

Will depend on how long it takes for your sore bum to distract from your concentration. Not so easy to move around on a bike.

I used to 'commute' weekly to college, 30 miles, on a 30mph moped. Quite far enough.
Later on my 100cc bike, often did 100 miles at a time. Didn't increase much with a larger bike.
Realistically, 30-40 miles is long enough on a regular basis, any further would be infrequent. Bum ache, backache, stiff neck, stiff wrists, will all afflict you in time.

portland_bill said:

Will depend on how long it takes for your sore bum to distract from your concentration. Not so easy to move around on a bike.

I used to 'commute' weekly to college, 30 miles, on a 30mph moped. Quite far enough.
Later on my 100cc bike, often did 100 miles at a time. Didn't increase much with a larger bike.
Realistically, 30-40 miles is long enough on a regular basis, any further would be infrequent. Bum ache, backache, stiff neck, stiff wrists, will all afflict you in time.

Click to expand...

portland_bill

My university / city is 7.5 miles away, not that far, mostly a straight road!
My work experience is 10 miles the other direction, hopefully I'll get that again this summer!
The head office for that place is 50 miles away, I'm more scared they'd ask me to go there for a week!

But all in all, the scope of my travel is quite small range except for one off road trips, but even then, N. Ireland is about 70 miles left to right!

Not long distances then.
Make sure you've got motorcycle on your licence.
Find your nearest motorcycle trainers and go see them. Ask nicely, they might let you have a go on one of their bikes, at the very least they'll explain the process. They will all be enthusiasts. They can give you an idea of costs of training/testing and timescale.

SB1500 said:

portland_bill

My university / city is 7.5 miles away, not that far, mostly a straight road!
My work experience is 10 miles the other direction, hopefully I'll get that again this summer!
The head office for that place is 50 miles away, I'm more scared they'd ask me to go there for a week!

Click to expand...

50 miles is an hour and a bit.. not so far..

I saw this a few mins ago.. made me laugh - I've had 3 of these..,
have a look , and let us know;
1, what you think (apart from being 500 miles away..)
2, what it would need for it's MOT ,
3, what doesn't "add-up.."

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/honda-clr...1c01ad0&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=332070708109

varesecrazy said:

50 miles is an hour and a bit.. not so far..

I saw this a few mins ago.. made me laugh - I've had 3 of these..,
have a look , and let us know;
1, what you think (apart from being 500 miles away..)
2, what it would need for it's MOT ,
3, what doesn't "add-up.."

Click to expand...

Not my cup of tea, even if as Honda intended. I preferred proper road orientated bikes, but now would go for a big scooter - soft comfort?

I know you are often teased about your navigation, but Stratford on Avon is a little closer than 500 miles, or did you have a special route planned?

Intrigued that the seller says road legal, and that it has never let him down, but selling as he's not got his CBT. Oops! Got caught?

To me, its current price of £285 is way too much.

portland_bill said:

I know you are often teased about your navigation, but Stratford on Avon is a little closer than 500 miles, or did you have a special route planned?

Click to expand...

Yeah but get stuck on that one way system looking for parking spaces in summer and there's your mileage.

portland_bill said:

Not my cup of tea, even if as Honda intended. I preferred proper road orientated bikes, but now would go for a big scooter - soft comfort?

I know you are often teased about your navigation, but Stratford on Avon is a little closer than 500 miles, or did you have a special route planned?

Intrigued that the seller says road legal, and that it has never let him down, but selling as he's not got his CBT. Oops! Got caught?

To me, its current price of £285 is way too much.

Click to expand...

my last Cityfly was £110 and in a similar state..,

fine for a years commuting, then sold on

I meant 500 from Belfast,
I looked at it thinking the chain was past it.. apparently it's one of it's redeeming features

I actually made a batch of exhaust heat shields - but this isn't deserving of one..,
Charlie

Make sure to go on to the DVLA website and get a Provisional Motorcycle license first.

You used to be able to ride a bike with a car license and CBT in the past but that was stopped in 2015

Before you do a CBT you need to decide what kind of bike you want to ride. This is daft but go to a dealer and sit on a few before taking the plunge. The two types of CBT are the same as the car test in a way manual (geared) bikes and automatic scooters. Get the best feel you can but if you do a manual CBT you can also ride an automatic.

Geared bikes are more work, trickier to balance at low speed and harder to fall off if you crash (squashed balls is the third most common injury due to people hitting the tank).

Automatics are less work, easier to fall off (away from) but if you hit something like a truck, drop side or pick up the bars can bend inwards and cut your legs off half way down your Femur.

Protection.

Helmet - £100 minimum never second hand, cheap ones are cheap for the wrong reason. Clear visor with a tinted insert for sunny days only. Tinted visors on days that are dull, overcast, wet etc are suicide.

Boots - Proper bike boots, toe, heel and shin pads, tough durable sole and three straps. Lace up boots are stupid, rigger types are hard to cut off and anything with a steel toe will break your Metatarsal bones if you instinctively put your foot down at speed. £70-80 for a good pair.

Gloves - Leather, padded knuckles, double skin palms, wrist support and go at least half way up your wrists. Thinsulated this time of year but you can get liners for that. Expect to pay £40 at least for a good pair.

Jacket - Hi-Vis preferably, waterproof with padded shoulders, elbows and back protection. £100-150 for a good one.

Trousers - Dragin' Jeans are a minimum. Padded, hi-viz optional, waterproof over covers.

Leathers - If you are a commuter and riding a scooter I wouldn't bother but if you have geared bike I would go two piece leathers with padding and knee slider patches. You might get the bike bug and move on to bigger ones down the line and having the leathers already will save you later.

Like bumpers, airbags and seat belts I think the gear the rider wears should be part of the bikes M.O.T and a legal requirement but the number of kids riding around in shorts, t'shirt and helmet unstrapped in the Summer is sickening. Sure it gets hot and uncomfortable but when you fall off having to graft skin from your arse to repair your hands is probably less so.

Falling off.

DO NOT ROLL

Even if you are wearing padded up leathers try not to roll as every rotation is an impact, every impact is potentially a broken bone, roll on to an already broken bone and expect to loose that arm/leg.

Try to spread yourself out and slide.

You will not have time to think about it so practice. Jump on your bed and spread out or use a garden trampoline, anything to help your body learn what to do when you fall off.

I've had a few offs but my big one was at Donnington. I had overtaken a couple of guys who were distracting each other. One of those lost his bike and was slapped off. That bike hit mine and just as I hit the track I was collected by the other rider. Dislocated shoulder, broken ribs, broken Coccyx and compacted spine. It took three months to lean how to walk again and I'm not allowed to race anymore.

Your off won't be anything like that. Some idiot will pull out in front of you and you'll either end up over the bonnet or have time to swerve and collect the front bumper ending up in the middle of the road...

...or worse. If my big one was on the road, no run off, road furniture in the way and trees, solid curb and other stuff to crash into I'd be dead.

On that topic when I first started riding bikes there was a group of about thirty of us who used to meet up at Hunstanton some Summer Saturdays. There are only twenty one of us left and of those are in wheel chairs only three still ride bikes.

Bike choice is simple.

Avoid anything you haven't heard of.
Avoid anything you can't pronounce.
Basically the Chinese rubbish that has flooded the market in recent years.

I'm not being rude here but I know loads of new bikers who have bought new and cheap instead of a second hand Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha for the same money and had to push their bikes home in the rain. Check parts availability before you buy, again these Chinese bikes can be a faff to get bits for.

Consumables like tyres, filters, bulbs ect.

Two or four stroke.

Historically two strokes were quicker but less reliable than four stroke. But that gap has been closing regularly and many four strokes are just as quick as two stokes used to be. I don't want to get too technical and it comes down to how much faff you want in your life.

Four stroke - Petrol and go.
Two stroke - Petrol, oil and go.

If you can ensure you don't ever, ever, EVER run out of two stroke oil it horses for courses.

That's about it really.

Oh one more thing. Going from a car to a bike is like going from cage diving to see the wildlife to snorkeling in a nest of sharks with blood in the water.

Enjoy yourself but take it very, very, very seriously.