Hey there

I need some advice on some trouble i'm having with a Punto Evo 1.6 120hp 2011 120k km

I bought it about 1.5 month ago and i'm having some trouble

2 weeks ago I put some excellium diesel in it and the following day a faulty engine light lit up, I'm not sure it was linked to it, but read someone had that too the day after trying some premium oil... So idk

Anyway, after getting an elm and linking to my phone I had this result

Confirmed Trouble Codes
-P010F: Mass or Volume Air Flow Sensor A/B Correlation (Powertrain, Generic)

Freeze Frame
-P010F: Mass or Volume Air Flow Sensor A/B Correlation (Powertrain, Generic)
-Calculated engine load: 0.0 %
-Engine Coolant Temperature: 87 °C
-Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure: 105.0 kPa
-Engine RPM: 2490 RPM
-Vehicle Speed Sensor: 109 km/h
-Intake Air Temperature: 24 °C
-Air Flow Rate from Mass Flow Sensor: 24.25 g/s
-Fuel Rail Pressure: 51150 kPa

I was told to unplug and replug the maf sensor, I did so and cleared defaults

Thought I was good, but seems not.

Sometimes, I believe it happens after I deccelerate, the car gets into safe mod (max 3k rpm or even 2.5 depending what gear I am running), start/stop gets disabled and speed regulator too

If I stop the engine and start the car again, it goes as if nothing happened

There is no light or message coming up after it gets into safe mod, I tried to check errors with elm and found nothing

But, one test is wrong :

Mid$31 EGR monitor Test ID$80
min 38,502 max 43,827 my value 44,077

Could the safe mod come from EGR valve ?
How to know ? Could a garage tell me more than I can with elm ? I mean from reading the car ? Or will they have to guess with what I tell them, if they can't reproduce the thing ?
Could if be the MAF sensor ?

I don't know the car much, only drove about 1000km since I have it, but thinks it lacks some power, I mean before 1800-2000k rpm, I don't feel acceleration, turbo lag, or maybe DPF is dead, I don't know, but after 2k, it goes fast, and drinks alot, tho I try to keep it at 7.2l/100km

Also during that 1k km, I didn't have the dpf regeneration cycle to start, thought I read it's every 800-1000kms ?
I know the guy before me did his oil change himself, and service has been reseted when he last did, but I read there is some other thing than service to say you changed oil, and that if not reset, dpf regeneration wouldn't start, it that true ?

Just hope it's not something too pricy and that I didn't waste my money on a faulty car, I'm coming from an old 99 ibiza 1l 50hp that I couldn't see anymore :bang:

Thanks for help, if you guys have ideas...

Anyone ?

Today the fault code came back with check engine message on board.

ELM gives a similar freeze flame from last time but it's weird because it says 131km/h, when I was at 50 when the fault code came ? Is it normal ?

Coude a freeze flame get memorised before anything appear on display ?

I'm really confused

So today I was able to use a computer and try multiecuscan

It found another fault code than android apps didn't in past
P0409


And I did record some stuff

I believe turbo is fine as desired and actual control position are similar
But the EGR is totally wrong !

Screen 1
Screen 2
Screen 3

I was worried it might be dpf, but it says 75% and normal clogging, says 100 isn't too bad but 200% is critical, anyway, seems I'm fine on this for now

I didn't notice any regeneration in past but it says it did 450km ago, that average temp for last 2 gen was about 650° and that it lasted about 530s

Now I'll try to find someone help me clean the egr and maf sensor and see if I get any improvements, if not idk if only egr has to be changed or also maf sensor, as first error code mention it, but I think EGR only ?

Evo63 said:

So today I was able to use a computer and try multiecuscan

It found another fault code than android apps didn't in past
P0409


And I did record some stuff

I believe turbo is fine as desired and actual control position are similar
But the EGR is totally wrong !

Screen 1
Screen 2
Screen 3

I was worried it might be dpf, but it says 75% and normal clogging, says 100 isn't too bad but 200% is critical, anyway, seems I'm fine on this for now

I didn't notice any regeneration in past but it says it did 450km ago, that average temp for last 2 gen was about 650° and that it lasted about 530s

Now I'll try to find someone help me clean the egr and maf sensor and see if I get any improvements, if not idk if only egr has to be changed or also maf sensor, as first error code mention it, but I think EGR only ?

Click to expand...

Hi,
sorry - just seen your posts..,
sounds like using MES to reset the oil degradation , etc, will give the engine a better chance of running properly..,

I know little about the 1.6 engine..maybe look in the TECH section.. or SEARCH on here in "advanced" works well for specific searches,
Charlie

I'm not sure I can reset this thing, think it asks for yellow adapter/connector, but I saw next service in ~28000 km so In the end I believe oil stuff is ok

Anyway thanks for help, I'll also link my screens into the tech forum, maybe they can tell me more or ask for a wider input selection

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/342267-no-turbo-till-about-2300-revs-3.html
ChrisUK is the only member still active

Two people told me MAF sensor should be the problem, but to me, it can't be the thing causing EGR position to be wrong to desired one..

Even if MAF sensor is sending bad infos, shouldn't ECU recalculate another desired position ? And my EGR follow it ?

After investigating, I found the MAF sensor to be pretty clean, and looking closer, found manufacturing date : 09/2015 ....

Someone knew about this... EGR screw didn't seem new and it was dismount in the past, I removed it thinking it would be rusty clogged or would need some cleaning, but it seems someone did it before selling the car...

See by yourself http://imgur.com/a/UY7CU

Nothing compared to what I can see on google

So, without power it is fully open, I can close it with finger without too much resistance and also same strenght needed from 0 to 100% closed, so now I'm doubtful

Anyway I made it move for a while and reinstalled it, gotta have a ride to see how it goes, but doubt it changed anything

Could any professional tech confirm or at least give his advice on it ?
I'm pretty sure it's the EGR from last recording, but I don't wanna replace wrong parts and miss the real problem

Thanks for help

Evo63 said:

Two people told me MAF sensor should be the problem, but to me, it can't be the thing causing EGR position to be wrong to desired one..

Even if MAF sensor is sending bad infos, shouldn't ECU recalculate another desired position ? And my EGR follow it ?

After investigating, I found the MAF sensor to be pretty clean, and looking closer, found manufacturing date : 09/2015 ....

Someone knew about this... EGR screw didn't seem new and it was dismount in the past, I removed it thinking it would be rusty clogged or would need some cleaning, but it seems someone did it before selling the car...

See by yourself http://imgur.com/a/UY7CU

Nothing compared to what I can see on google

So, without power it is fully open, I can close it with finger without too much resistance and also same strenght needed from 0 to 100% closed, so now I'm doubtful

Anyway I made it move for a while and reinstalled it, gotta have a ride to see how it goes, but doubt it changed anything

Could any professional tech confirm or at least give his advice on it ?
I'm pretty sure it's the EGR from last recording, but I don't wanna replace wrong parts and miss the real problem

Thanks for help

Click to expand...

The reason it's probably throwing a MAF code is that the EGR value is high, and therefore more exhaust gas is re-entering the intake (possibly due to the 75% clogged DPF causing a flow restriction).

Give the EGR a good clean, as it's not uncommon for them to stick due to the soot build-up. Once cleaned, refit and clear the codes, you might get a better reading.

Get the yellow adapter for MES, there's a possibility you might be able to force a REGEN of the DPF, which should hopefully help things run smoothly.

Don't you find the pics already pretty clean ?
This was just after dismounting
http://imgur.com/a/UY7CU

Sure I removed the little soot there was, but don't think it was blocking anything

Dunno if I need the yellow adaptor to do the force regen but I saw last regen happened 100km ago, tho I could try, or bring to carbon cleaning center or w/e they call it in english, they'll force regen for 45m/1hr with some product to help cleaning dpf egr etc.

Also are all color adapters usefull with elm or should I only get yellow one?

Anyway I drove a little now and no fault came back, yet, and it didn't go in slow mod when I tried (2x) to decelerate where it went slow last times

But I think curves still show EGR at wrong position, will check and upload them later today

Hi,
MES says you need an adaptor to do a service reset for Model year 09 but it's not clear if it's all cars after 09.
I don't know the 1.6, but the other 16V diesel multijets with DPF need an oil degradation reset as well as a service reset. If this is not done it can stop DPF regenerations regardless of the oil condition. You should reset the oil degradation and do a forced DPF regeneration to sort that out first. At least it does not need any parts. Next thing would be to take the EGR valve off and clean it. Bothe a blocked DPF or EGR valve will upset the airflow and possibly cause the sort of problems you are seeing. Multiecuscan is pretty much as good as anything a Fiat specialist has and better than most non-Fiat garages EOBD diagnostic equipment.


Robert G8RPI.

Hey

I first thought about this reset thing, but it seems it does regeneration, just I don't notice it, but last one was 100km ago, and previous about 500-600, oil is at 80% and next change is said in 28 000km, so reset was certainly done

I just did clean the EGR, but think the previous guy did it before selling it, as it seemed pretty clean, compared to what I saw documenting on EGR cleaning

Curves I got

1
2
3
4
5

As before, EGR wanted and actual position doesn't match, and can also see that mass air wanted and mesured aren't correct, probably cause EGR won't open or close enough.

Evo63 said:

Don't you find the pics already pretty clean ?
This was just after dismounting
http://imgur.com/a/UY7CU

Sure I removed the little soot there was, but don't think it was blocking anything

Dunno if I need the yellow adaptor to do the force regen but I saw last regen happened 100km ago, tho I could try, or bring to carbon cleaning center or w/e they call it in english, they'll force regen for 45m/1hr with some product to help cleaning dpf egr etc.

Also are all color adapters usefull with elm or should I only get yellow one?

Anyway I drove a little now and no fault came back, yet, and it didn't go in slow mod when I tried (2x) to decelerate where it went slow last times

But I think curves still show EGR at wrong position, will check and upload them later today

Click to expand...

That unit in the pic is NOT the EGR. It is an electric throttle body that is used to shut off the air intake when you turn off the engine.

Regarding the other adapters, It depends how deep you want to delve into all the other ECU's but yes, they are all handy. £15 for all of them on ebay i think

Alright...

I wanted to buy the technical book, but seems 1.6 version doesn't have one (at least on french manuals), I found one for Grande Punto, but not really sure it would be the same

Think it could be under as in this video


Anyway, thanks for your time, I'll give an update maybe this weekend if I can work on it

Evo63 said:

Alright...

I wanted to buy the technical book, but seems 1.6 version doesn't have one (at least on french manuals), I found one for Grande Punto, but not really sure it would be the same

Think it could be under as in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9zMtLvCQ4

Anyway, thanks for your time, I'll give an update maybe this weekend if I can work on it

Click to expand...

The part removed at the end of that video is indeed the EGR valve. Good luck getting to it

Hi guys,
Im from Poland and i have the same punto evo with 1.6 mjt[emoji6] my egr after 30sec on idle turn off and actual air quantity shows 400 mg/i when i press gas it back to something around 200 but sometimes is 190 and sometimes is 240 and dont know why.. EGR? Evo63 can you put some short video of air quantity in cold start and hot engine with egr position?

Hey

I'll try this weekend, I don't have laptop, but gf does

So basically you want

%EGR Opening
Desired EGR Position
Actual EGR Position
Intake Air Quantity
Desired Intake Air Quantity

Can't easily do videos but I'll record the graph, I think I read somewhere there is something happening with EGR after 70sec, tho can't remember what exactly

So first thing, start the car, record for 2-3m without any gear on ?
Then the same once engine is hot but still idling ?
Or should I also accelerate and see if it changed anything with EGR while no gear on ? (and in that case add rpm to the recording to see if it affects)

Ok, that's what i want. Everythings on idle from cold start and then with hot engine withput gear on. Additionaly accelerate from 1500rpm to 3500rpm with these parameters. I will do this too and compare the results.

Hi,
One more thing. Sometimes i have maybe 70% of power in cold or hot engine. Yout results maybe can resolve my problem. After 30 sec on idle egr desired is -40mm and actual near 0 or -0.1mm. I dont know if this is ok or not.

Hmm, looking back at my recording and what you say, I'm wondering, can it really achieve a negative position ?

1
2


And if it can't, do I really have any problem with my EGR ?
If we look, we can see it only close to 0mm, and seems to open more or less correctly when wanted, just it never goes below 0, but that doesn't sound abnormal thinking about it

I'll try do to your recording and clean my EGR this weekend if I get the time and weather allow it...

I can see that yout egr is opening to minus values when driving.