Technical New engines coming soon!
- Thread starter Ulpian
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Technical New engines coming soon!
So I see they list the 1.4 Turbo T-Jet 120BHP
What happened to the 160BHP 1.4 Turbo Multiair they offer in the US?
Is the Multiair having reliability problems? Seems odd that Fiat would not offer this, what is supposed to be a better engine for power, torque, fuel consumption and emissions.
Puzzling!
What happened to the 160BHP 1.4 Turbo Multiair they offer in the US?
Is the Multiair having reliability problems? Seems odd that Fiat would not offer this, what is supposed to be a better engine for power, torque, fuel consumption and emissions.
Puzzling!
glassbathroom
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This article could still be saying that the new engines are only for the Living/MPW version. It is not entirely clear.
glassbathroom
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However it is clearer in the following article that the new engines are coming across the 500L range:-
http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/Fiat_news.html?id=13133
Good news.
http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/Fiat_news.html?id=13133
Good news.
I must admit to being a little confused (creeping senility mostly) at the FIAT Group engine policy. I think it was Sergio Marchewotsisface who was recently quoted saying that they couldn't just stick any old engines in Alfa Romeos, implying that the range would have unique power units.
The reason I'm confused is that VW seems to use versions of the same engines in ever thing they make from Skoda and Seat up to Audi. From Audi there are other units shared with Bentley and Lamborghini.
It also baffles me why they fit the 1.6 JTDm in 120 Bhp version in the Mito but the 105 Bhp version in the larger, heavier Giulietta. I'm also not entirely convinced with the use of the Twin Air in the Mito, Punto and 500L. The Panda and regular 500 I can see, but I think they'll struggle in larger cars.
Personally, I think they should have developed the 0.9 Twin Air as well as 1.2 triple and the existing 1.4 Multi Air. Ford have introduced the 1.0 Ecoboost into the Focus range but they've kept the 1.6 petrol in around 5 different versions.
One of the advantages of having a range of manufacturers is commonality. With the exception of certain low income countries, the sort that would still take the MK2 Punto or Palio, or God forbid, the Uno, we ought to be getting more advanced engines across the entire range.
500..........65, 85 & 105 bhp Twin Air + 1.3 MJ 75
Panda.......65 & 85 bhp Twin Air + 1.3 MJ with 105 TA possibly in the future.
500L........1.4 Multi Air, 1.3 MJ 85 1.6 MJ 105
500L MPW.1.4 Multi Air, 1.4 MA 120, 1.6 105 & 120 MJ
Bravo.......1.4 MA 105 & 140, 1.6 MJ 105 & 120.
That's a total of 4 different engine architectures. The old 1.2 & 1.4 8v motors could be consigned to "3rd World Markets" where they could still perform sterling service especially where alternative fuels, such as methanol, are used.
I'm sure there's room for the 1.6 MJ to be extended up to 140 bhp, or alternatively for the 2.0 MJ to be used.
Let the 500 & Panda ranges provide the cheeky scamp type "sporty" FIATS and then look seriously at extending the Abarth range to include a new Bravo, but I don't think that spiritual successors to the 131 Sport and Strada 130TC are out of the question. How about a rorty version of the 1750 MA as used in the Giulietta? Maybe putting out slightly less power but more basic and stripped out, leaving the sleek, more luxurious Giulietta to combat Audis and the like.
Mmm. That was only supposed to be about 10 lines long. Think it's about time I went to........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The reason I'm confused is that VW seems to use versions of the same engines in ever thing they make from Skoda and Seat up to Audi. From Audi there are other units shared with Bentley and Lamborghini.
It also baffles me why they fit the 1.6 JTDm in 120 Bhp version in the Mito but the 105 Bhp version in the larger, heavier Giulietta. I'm also not entirely convinced with the use of the Twin Air in the Mito, Punto and 500L. The Panda and regular 500 I can see, but I think they'll struggle in larger cars.
Personally, I think they should have developed the 0.9 Twin Air as well as 1.2 triple and the existing 1.4 Multi Air. Ford have introduced the 1.0 Ecoboost into the Focus range but they've kept the 1.6 petrol in around 5 different versions.
One of the advantages of having a range of manufacturers is commonality. With the exception of certain low income countries, the sort that would still take the MK2 Punto or Palio, or God forbid, the Uno, we ought to be getting more advanced engines across the entire range.
500..........65, 85 & 105 bhp Twin Air + 1.3 MJ 75
Panda.......65 & 85 bhp Twin Air + 1.3 MJ with 105 TA possibly in the future.
500L........1.4 Multi Air, 1.3 MJ 85 1.6 MJ 105
500L MPW.1.4 Multi Air, 1.4 MA 120, 1.6 105 & 120 MJ
Bravo.......1.4 MA 105 & 140, 1.6 MJ 105 & 120.
That's a total of 4 different engine architectures. The old 1.2 & 1.4 8v motors could be consigned to "3rd World Markets" where they could still perform sterling service especially where alternative fuels, such as methanol, are used.
I'm sure there's room for the 1.6 MJ to be extended up to 140 bhp, or alternatively for the 2.0 MJ to be used.
Let the 500 & Panda ranges provide the cheeky scamp type "sporty" FIATS and then look seriously at extending the Abarth range to include a new Bravo, but I don't think that spiritual successors to the 131 Sport and Strada 130TC are out of the question. How about a rorty version of the 1750 MA as used in the Giulietta? Maybe putting out slightly less power but more basic and stripped out, leaving the sleek, more luxurious Giulietta to combat Audis and the like.
Mmm. That was only supposed to be about 10 lines long. Think it's about time I went to........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I agree in principle.
I just think the all the 500ls should get the 1.6 Diesel 120 and this should be a revised version as well. Other manufacturers are getting better mileage from similar engines, and indeed two litre units.
A friend has a Citroen DS3 petrol with a 0-60 time of around eight seconds, and he always gets between 39 and 55 mpg out of that, driving hard!
A triple, based on the TA is needed, and the little Diesel 1.3 just seems to be rather gutless and quite thirsty in any application, so rather pointless unless they can get far better economy out of it.
The Bravo is dead in the water and probably won't be replaced, and future Alfas will all be rear wheel drive, so the Guilietta and Mito are living on borrowed time, but they certainly need gutsier, and more economical engines - now - because the new cars are still a while away.
If the TA can really give over 105 then both the 500 and the Panda should get it, because these two are Fiat's mainstream cars now, and there is a new Mini coming next year with all new engines, the base one being an economical triple 1500. This will make the 500 look stale.
2014 will be an interesting year. I like the look of the Jeep and the Fiat SUV based on the 500L platform as well, and I hope that they have a 1.6D with over 130 bhp too. And a really good petrol engine. If Citroen/Peugeot and BMW can do it so can Fiat Powertain. But get on with it!
I just think the all the 500ls should get the 1.6 Diesel 120 and this should be a revised version as well. Other manufacturers are getting better mileage from similar engines, and indeed two litre units.
A friend has a Citroen DS3 petrol with a 0-60 time of around eight seconds, and he always gets between 39 and 55 mpg out of that, driving hard!
A triple, based on the TA is needed, and the little Diesel 1.3 just seems to be rather gutless and quite thirsty in any application, so rather pointless unless they can get far better economy out of it.
The Bravo is dead in the water and probably won't be replaced, and future Alfas will all be rear wheel drive, so the Guilietta and Mito are living on borrowed time, but they certainly need gutsier, and more economical engines - now - because the new cars are still a while away.
If the TA can really give over 105 then both the 500 and the Panda should get it, because these two are Fiat's mainstream cars now, and there is a new Mini coming next year with all new engines, the base one being an economical triple 1500. This will make the 500 look stale.
2014 will be an interesting year. I like the look of the Jeep and the Fiat SUV based on the 500L platform as well, and I hope that they have a 1.6D with over 130 bhp too. And a really good petrol engine. If Citroen/Peugeot and BMW can do it so can Fiat Powertain. But get on with it!
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Get on with it indeed - in particular it does feel as if FIAT have been lagging behind somewhat in the SUV market and the 500X has been a long time coming, and other makers have been stealing a march on them with their offerings.
If the pre launch images are correct the 500X is looking like a very serious contender in that market, it is a nice looking car.
If the pre launch images are correct the 500X is looking like a very serious contender in that market, it is a nice looking car.
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At least it doesn't look like just a 500L with big wheels and tyres. The only problem from my standoint, is that it does have a bit of a look of a Vauxhall Mokka or Antara, not to mention the Kia Sportage.
All of them look good to my eyes but perhaps FIAT need something a little more distinctive.
Having said that, if I was in the market for a soft roader then it looks like the kind of thing I'd buy
All of them look good to my eyes but perhaps FIAT need something a little more distinctive.
Having said that, if I was in the market for a soft roader then it looks like the kind of thing I'd buy
Nice! 
Is there a front view?
I think Fiat have to be rather "safe" in this segment... and just "tidy" is probably better than "radical" styling...
Ralf S.
Is there a front view?
I think Fiat have to be rather "safe" in this segment... and just "tidy" is probably better than "radical" styling...
Ralf S.
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Nice!
Is there a front view?
I think Fiat have to be rather "safe" in this segment... and just "tidy" is probably better than "radical" styling...
Ralf S.
Allow me!
Doesn't really work, does it. But I'm sure the real one will be very smart and interesting.
Thanks for the pix.
Thanks for the pix.
I'm a big fan of the Panda 4x4 and can't complain about economy from the m-jet 1.3 which gives me about 56mpg. However, I think Fiat do need to produce a larger 4x4 along the lines of the Skoda Yeti, or Dacia Duster. A car with excellent off road credibility like the Panda and not just a soft off roader like the SUV pictured. In fact I'm surprised that this model is also being mooted as the base for the Jeep Cherokee replacement!
The spy photos (of the Jeep based on the 500L) reveal a comprehensive 4X4 chassis with an independent rear end and good ground clearance, so don't worry.
Who knows what these will look like, but don't expect them to look much like the illustrations. I hope not anyway
Who knows what these will look like, but don't expect them to look much like the illustrations. I hope not anyway
That's an interesting comment Ulpian. I've used my Panda 4x4 as a field vehicle with trips to mines, across the Scottish highlands and Ireland, often over rough unmade tracks and it has never let me down, never got stuck and always draws a smile from colleagues. However, I would like a slightly larger vehicle with good ground clearance and 4x4 ability. I don't want a Land Rover Defender, or Jeep Wrangler but would be very interested in a 500L, or Yeti sized vehicle with the Panda's same off road ability.
Yes they do. One car is going to be Jeep, and the other a Fiat. The Jeep arrives first.
Both are similar under the skin and the basis of them both is the new floorpan under the 500L. This is a synergy Dacia uses, whereby all their cars, from the smallish Sandero to the rufty-tufty Duster, are built on a modified version of the same floorpan. In the case of Dacia component sharing keeps costs down, for example all Dacias have the same windscreen and most share the same front doors, seats and dash architecture etc. etc..
Both are similar under the skin and the basis of them both is the new floorpan under the 500L. This is a synergy Dacia uses, whereby all their cars, from the smallish Sandero to the rufty-tufty Duster, are built on a modified version of the same floorpan. In the case of Dacia component sharing keeps costs down, for example all Dacias have the same windscreen and most share the same front doors, seats and dash architecture etc. etc..
