General 6-speed vs 5-speed gearbox on Sporting

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General 6-speed vs 5-speed gearbox on Sporting

kiopo

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Does anyone know why Fiat decided to go with a 5-speed gearbox on the Sporting 16v 1.8, as opposed to the 6-speed? Just wondering really.

I had the 6-speed on my last Stilo (1.4) and it was great for motorways. The fifth gear on the Sporting just seems to be revving too high at cruising speed, although there is a lot of 'pull'. Wondering if that's partly behind the fuel economy..
 
I suspect the key is in the word 'Sporting'. When this car was built 6-speeders were comparatively rare (they're more common now). The idea was to create a more sporting feel by introducing six more closely-spaced ratios. As you say, this means higher revs while cruising the M'ways.

Then again, I could be completely wrong...
 
I suspect the key is in the word 'Sporting'. When this car was built 6-speeders were comparatively rare (they're more common now). The idea was to create a more sporting feel by introducing six more closely-spaced ratios. As you say, this means higher revs while cruising the M'ways.

Then again, I could be completely wrong...

But the Sporting is the 5-speed one? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you said (highly possible!). I would have thought they'd go for more gears on the sports models, rather than the other way around. Just struggling to imagine why you'd put a 6-speed on a 1.2 / 1.4 / 1.6 but a 5-speed on a 1.8 sports version.
 
There has never been a 6 speed gearbox fitted to the 1.8. So ther was nothing on the shelf for the sporting.
I think the 1.4 (a more recent design) got the 6 speed to get a lower consumption (and maybe to get taxbonusses for drivers) in several european countries.

gr J
 
There has never been a 6 speed gearbox fitted to the 1.8. So ther was nothing on the shelf for the sporting.
I think the 1.4 (a more recent design) got the 6 speed to get a lower consumption (and maybe to get taxbonusses for drivers) in several european countries.

gr J

Ah so the 3dr 1.4 was a more recent design than the sporting? Starts to make a bit more sense if that's the case. Definitely missing having that sixth gear!
 
Ah so the 3dr 1.4 was a more recent design than the sporting? Starts to make a bit more sense if that's the case. Definitely missing having that sixth gear!

The 6th gear would be useless on a heavy car as the Stilo with the underpowered engines like 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 in several countries. One of them is Norway. :D Where I have lived the 6 last years, the 5th gear was obsolete - even on local motorways as it was so much up and down in addition to speed restrictions. I used to call it "The Denmark Gear" as 5th was nice to have there when cruising in 130 km/h on a completely flat landscape.
 
The 6th gear would be useless on a heavy car as the Stilo with the underpowered engines like 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 in several countries. One of them is Norway. :D Where I have lived the 6 last years, the 5th gear was obsolete - even on local motorways as it was so much up and down in addition to speed restrictions. I used to call it "The Denmark Gear" as 5th was nice to have there when cruising in 130 km/h on a completely flat landscape.

The 6th gear isn't useless on my 1.4 for motorways tbh, even driving on country routes.
 
The 6th gear isn't useless on my 1.4 for motorways tbh, even driving on country routes.

That depends on the speed limit. Try putting in 6th gear and travel around on a motorway with 80 max km/h uphills with 4 people and luggage. 6 speed boxes only comes with larger engines and diesels here. (y)

Country routes are actually better for The Denmark Gear than on motorway driving here, as it is more important to keep the speed of the other vehicles.
 
The 6th gear would be useless on a heavy car as the Stilo with the underpowered engines like 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 in several countries. One of them is Norway. :D Where I have lived the 6 last years, the 5th gear was obsolete - even on local motorways as it was so much up and down in addition to speed restrictions. I used to call it "The Denmark Gear" as 5th was nice to have there when cruising in 130 km/h on a completely flat landscape.

But the 6th gear was on the 1.4, but not on the 1.8 (the one I currently have)! So what you're saying is exactly why I'm confused as to why they did it that way round, you normally see sportier cars with more gears for smoother changes / more consistent power etc. Just don't understand why you would ditch that gearbox in favour of a 5-speed when coming up with the sport version.

I did find the 6th gear useful on the 1.4 for motorways, but it's pretty flat terrain in the UK really. Felt like the gearing from third to sixth was really good though. The 5-speed on the Sporting is just crying out (literally, noisy as hell at cruising speed) for a higher gear, in my opinion.
 
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But the 6th gear was on the 1.4, but not on the 1.8 (the one I currently have)! So what you're saying is exactly why I'm confused as to why they did it that way round, you normally see sportier cars with more gears for smoother changes / more consistent power etc. Just don't understand why you would ditch that gearbox in favour of a 5-speed when coming up with the sport version.

I did find the 6th gear useful on the 1.4 for motorways, but it's pretty flat terrain in the UK really. Felt like the gearing from third to sixth was really good though. The 5-speed on the Sporting is just crying out (literally, noisy as hell at cruising speed) for a higher gear, in my opinion.

I do see your point (that it is noisy, but if you drive at 65mph it's barely noticeable), but at the time of release of the stilo, there was no 1.4 engine, and most of them came with a 5-speed. (I do have a friend who owns a 52reg 1.2 stilo with 6-speed... jealous of him :p as he's averaging 60-70mpg on motorways, whereas me with a 1.6 16v i average 35-45mpg on the motorways as I don't have the extra 6th gear). I reckon when they released the 1.4 engine (in 2004 iirc), they decided a 6-speed will be better for fuel consumption.

Probably when fitting the 1.8 sporting a 5-speed they thought it will give it more torque in higher speeds. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Andy

LE: btw, what year is your 1.8 sporting?
 
I would have thought that a big engine with a wide power band and spread of torque would need less gears than a small, revvy engine in order to keep in the power band but the current trends seems to be to cram as many gears in as possible.
 
Sorry but your friend is having you on. No way a heavy Stilo with a 1.2 petrol engine of 2002 vintage can achieve a real 70mpg, six speed or not.

Either it is downhill all the way, or the instrument cluster has been changed without proxy. I got fantastic readings (both ends of the scale) before I did a proxy.
 
The smaller engines have more gears as the lower gears are lower ratio for better acceleration and higher end are higher ratio for improved economy. It makes perfect sense and you'll probably find top gear in 5 and 6 speed boxes have similar ratios. The 6 speed box will do 2000rpm at 50mph, what does the 5 speed box do?
 
Either it is downhill all the way, or the instrument cluster has been changed without proxy. I got fantastic readings (both ends of the scale) before I did a proxy.

Haha, might have been downhill or just taking the mick. But I did the test drive on it when he bought it, and in town it was doing about 40 average (mine does that mixed).
 
I do see your point (that it is noisy, but if you drive at 65mph it's barely noticeable), but at the time of release of the stilo, there was no 1.4 engine, and most of them came with a 5-speed. (I do have a friend who owns a 52reg 1.2 stilo with 6-speed... jealous of him :p as he's averaging 60-70mpg on motorways, whereas me with a 1.6 16v i average 35-45mpg on the motorways as I don't have the extra 6th gear). I reckon when they released the 1.4 engine (in 2004 iirc), they decided a 6-speed will be better for fuel consumption.

Probably when fitting the 1.8 sporting a 5-speed they thought it will give it more torque in higher speeds. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Andy

LE: btw, what year is your 1.8 sporting?

No you are spot on, it does give more torque at higher speeds for sure, it's just the higher revving that annoys me a bit. 75mph was pretty quiet in the 6 speed.

Mine is a 2006 Sporting, one of the last of the model to be made I think - made on the last day of Jan and registered in March.
 
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The smaller engines have more gears as the lower gears are lower ratio for better acceleration and higher end are higher ratio for improved economy. It makes perfect sense and you'll probably find top gear in 5 and 6 speed boxes have similar ratios. The 6 speed box will do 2000rpm at 50mph, what does the 5 speed box do?

I think it does about 3500 at 67, 3000 at 60 maybe but I can't remember. I'll let you know when I drive it back home tomorrow.

To me it feels like it is geared somewhere in between what was the fifth and sixth gears on the 6-speed, probably closer to fifth though. There's a lot of torque at higher speeds but I find I'm going slower on the motorway just to get the rev noise down a bit :p - no bad thing I guess! I think what people are saying about the 6-speed being introduced on later, smaller engine designs makes sense if it's true, I can't see much reason to have left it out intentionally personally, I'm pretty sure a higher ratio would vastly improve the higher speed economy on it. Much worse than my old 1.4 when you get around 70.
 
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