Technical "engine failure" warning & lack of power

RichDoblo120 · Jul 10, 2009

it's booked into a Fiat dealer for next week, they reckon it's probably the EGR valve.
The warranty runs out in about 3 weeks so I'm glad it's happened now if it had to happen.
Seems to be a common theme on the forum, maybe it's just one of those things that needs replacing every few years?

RichDoblo120 · Jul 12, 2009

sod's law the fault has corrected its self, warning lights gone and power is back

.
I'll wait and see what the techs say. Maybe they'll want to change the EGR anyway??

zocca · Jul 12, 2009

I had poblem with egr. But my problem was that i didnt recive engine fault i sufferr lack of power no more then 1500-2000rpm full speed. my mechanic changed mass air sensor but after one day it happend again and then he did one thing, he closed opening to the egr valve so now egr is not in function and my car is working normal. Car is 2003 year and all that cost 10euro. Now it is not euro3 standard becouse egr is not doing anything

RichDoblo120 · Jul 13, 2009

zocca said:
I had poblem with egr. But my problem was that i didnt recive engine fault i sufferr lack of power no more then 1500-2000rpm full speed. my mechanic changed mass air sensor but after one day it happend again and then he did one thing, he closed opening to the egr valve so now egr is not in function and my car is working normal. Car is 2003 year and all that cost 10euro. Now it is not euro3 standard becouse egr is not doing anything

they said they would change my EGR valve if it was faulty.

The fault has re-occured now and it's down on power again so I hope they can sort it.

RichDoblo120 · Jul 15, 2009

It was the DPF.
Not covered on 3rd year warranty so it cost £38 to run a cleaning cycle. Not too bad really. When he said it wasn't covered I was really worried

.

I was told that the engine needs a regular long run at high revs to keep the DPF clean, like a motorway run.
I rarely drive on motorways so that's going to be difficult to do, although I've got two long motorway trips coming up soon so that should help.

I'm hoping the DPF can last the life of the car if I can keep it clean as I was told they are about £1,000 to replace

.

g33ksc0tt · Jul 15, 2009

Blimey! Thats a bit expensive! Thanks for the advice - I'll keep coming home the motorway route

nec · Jul 15, 2009

RichDoblo120 said:
It was the DPF.
I was told that the engine needs a regular long run at high revs to keep the DPF clean, like a motorway run.
I'm hoping the DPF can last the life of the car if I can keep it clean as I was told they are about £1,000 to replace .

Nothing in the handbook to show that it needs what you have been told

.

The DPF to my mind either works or is faulty - surely a long run at high revs creates carbon which blocks the system up at which point the gizmo tells it to regenerate itself

Would be nice to have someone clarify this issue - the thought of £1000 is not satisfactory to me.

T14086 · Jul 15, 2009

nec said:
Nothing in the handbook to show that it needs what you have been told .

The DPF to my mind either works or is faulty - surely a long run at high revs creates carbon which blocks the system up at which point the gizmo tells it to regenerate itself

Would be nice to have someone clarify this issue - the thought of £1000 is not satisfactory to me.

handbook is just a guide and should be treated as such, call in or phone your nearest dealer if you have any questions.

DPF needs a good run (thus generating heat) to burn off the particles, typically 550-575oC.

nec · Jul 16, 2009

T14086 said:
DPF needs a good run (thus generating heat) to burn off the particles, typically 550-575oC.

Thanks T for the response - I will visit my main dealer and try to get someone to talk me through the DPF to try and understand it better. They have now been used since 2007 so problems should be surfacing now on high mileage vehicles if there are any.

I reckon they make the engine less efficient as regards mpg but cannot bottom that one as yet - unless of course you know something more..

bobian81 · Jul 16, 2009

oh dear, more dpf problems, after my experience, which is written all over this forum, I wouldnt touch another fiat with a dpf on, until they sort the reliability issues out. having said all that, we still own 3 fiats in our family, BUT the so called bullet proof skoda roomster that we bought to replace the doblo, is currently in at the dealership for a mysterious misfire, that seems to be undiagnosed, so i'm begining to wonder if thats a dpf issue as well.

T14086 · Jul 16, 2009

dont know if skoda use VW DPF's but if so they are having terrible problems with them.

I actually think the Fiat DPF works well, customers just need to get used to it & have a little understanding of it, dont expect salesman to explain it all but ask to speak to tech or DET at garage after all you just spent 9-12k on a new car so surely they can make sure you are 100% happy with it & its workings.

Ulpian · Jul 17, 2009

Perhaps people who do long fast runs occasionally actually burn out the DPFs and have no problems. The touble seems to arise where cars are used for shortish local journeys and never hammered

along fast roads for hours on end? Given that not everyone does use their car for long journeys perhaps petrol engines might be a better bet for more people.

Until the new Multijet2s arrive, with Multiair heads of course (2011?), as these will seemingly do without DPFs and EGR valves altogether. I hope.

T14086 · Jul 17, 2009

Main problem is short journeys which interupt the regeneration process.

nec · Jul 17, 2009

T14086 said:
Main problem is short journeys which interupt the regeneration process.

Good point T - should Fiat have included a flasher or something to let us know it is regenerating?

I can only say I have 'smelt' and felt the warmth once in 10k miles - which I assumed was the process. I would have thought that it would have been in operation every few hundred miles at the most - any thought on that point?

nec · Jul 18, 2009

Ulpian said:
Perhaps people who do long fast runs occasionally actually burn out the DPFs and have no problems.

Can't see that being the case as the heavier you foot it in a diesel without DPF the more unburnt carbon comes out (black smoke) so working on that basis the DPF would just clog sooner - IMHO.

If temp's of up to 600c are needed to regenerate a DPF then a blast when the engine is well warmed would not in my understanding of engine temps achieve anything near 600c - unless someone knows differently :worship:

T14086 · Jul 18, 2009

Injectors will pump more fuel to increase temp for example and switch on air-con,HRW etc to increase engine load thus temperature.

Despite what is often said the Fiat DPF system is very good but often mis-understood...dare I say even by some garages?

As said problems can arise from daily short trips to the shops (few miles) thus disrupting regeneration when it occurs.

kipper28 · Jul 19, 2009

Hi have just joined site and glad to find i,m not the only one having probs with DPF, thought i was paranoid.

My 1.9 MJ started playing up March 09 should say it is a taxi 07 plate 108k miles now.
Warning light came on took it to main dealer not the one i normally use diagnosed EGR valve faulty booked in to be replaced along with MOT and sevice.
Everything great until 2nd week in June light came back on, went to my local Fiat dealer this time as he is closer to where I stay.

Explained the prob, put it on the examiner diagnosed DPF clogged 108%? did see this on the examiner screen. Did a forced regen cleaned the filter went on my way no charge.

Three days later light came back on so back to dealer back on examiner result as above but also did software update that first dealer (arnie clark) should have done
now happilly on my way.

Two days later light comes on again back to dealer back on examiner DPF clogged again, examiner could not do forced regen kept aborting told needed new DPF (£925+vat) it,s my livelyhood so told them to go ahead.

New DPF duly fitted got 1 full day's work in b4 light came back on back to dealer
usual story filter clogged left it with them Thurs 16th got it back Fri 17th worked that day everything great went out Sat 18th to work coming home at night light came on
loss of power just waiting till 1pm to go back to dealer.

Sorry for the saga.

sludgeguts · Jul 19, 2009

Interesting. OH has a meriva & there are a few threads on the Vaux forums where engines have blown up. The cause has been attributed to the DPF not being regenerated - causing a blockage- causing diesel to get into the sump...
There are no warnings, just a sudden increase in rpm as you are driving along. Only way to stop the engine racing is to come to a dead stop in gear, & pop the clutch to stall the engine.
Some of these engines have only a few K on them

Vaux aren't interested as they blame the drivers for ignoring warning lights, yet they all say there were no lights! and the computer shows the fault clearly.

sludgeguts · Jul 19, 2009

kipper28 said:
Hi have just joined site and glad to find i,m not the only one having probs with DPF, thought i was paranoid.

My 1.9 MJ started playing up March 09 should say it is a taxi 07 plate 108k miles now.
Warning light came on took it to main dealer not the one i normally use diagnosed EGR valve faulty booked in to be replaced along with MOT and sevice.
Everything great until 2nd week in June light came back on, went to my local Fiat dealer this time as he is closer to where I stay.

Explained the prob, put it on the examiner diagnosed DPF clogged 108%? did see this on the examiner screen. Did a forced regen cleaned the filter went on my way no charge.

Three days later light came back on so back to dealer back on examiner result as above but also did software update that first dealer (arnie clark) should have done
now happilly on my way.

Two days later light comes on again back to dealer back on examiner DPF clogged again, examiner could not do forced regen kept aborting told needed new DPF (£925+vat) it,s my livelyhood so told them to go ahead.

New DPF duly fitted got 1 full day's work in b4 light came back on back to dealer
usual story filter clogged left it with them Thurs 16th got it back Fri 17th worked that day everything great went out Sat 18th to work coming home at night light came on
loss of power just waiting till 1pm to go back to dealer.

Sorry for the saga.

Well I'm not an expert but I'd say the problem isn't the dpf, it's elsewhere in the system. Something is allowing the fuel to burn in such a way that it's producing shedloads of soot? The filter is doing its job by catching the soot but there's too much being produced for the filter to clear it.

Just a thought but my mate's got an 06 plate volvo & I noticed a very sooty exhaust, loads of black soot coming out as he was driving along. He took it to an indie & they found one of the hoses was resting against the engine, so had melted a large hole in it. Replaced said hose & everything OK. There was a similar problem on 'the garage' (cable telly) & I said to the family, "that's what was wrong with mymate's car" (this was a range rover) and sure enough, there was a hole in one of the large breather pipes.

T14086 · Jul 19, 2009

Alot of problems are caused by not resetting the oil degredation index, this happens when non-fiat garages are used, seen it many times. Not saying this is your problem kipper but there are very few taxi owners/companies that use dealer servicing.

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