Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs

Technical Cross 1.3 not starting

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Technical Cross 1.3 not starting

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rmn

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Hi,

Went to start my 2010 Panda 1.3 diesel cross yesterday after leaving it for about 30 minutes after 30 mile drive and initially it woudn't start. Engine span over fine, and at a good rate, but no attempt made by engine to fire. Took key out then replaced it and eventually it fired (key reference may be irrelevant). Once fired it idled and revved as it should. Got some more diesel (tank was 1/4 full but has been filled in previous week. Once again, initial reluctance to fire but did after a few attempts and ran fine. Later that day, engine cooled off, fired up fine. After about 5 miles engine light (orange one with rubbish pictogram of engine) came on though no change to engine. Finished journey which involved some long waiting in queres. Once home, stopped engine and started it gain, which it did, albeit with engine light still on. Went to see if it would start today andd guess what - no joys. Spins over fine after waiting for glow plug light to extinguish as per. Not even the slightests sign of life. On sticking my finger up the exhaust there was no evidence to suggest any unburnt fuel, just the usual black soot.

I have a nasty feeling it might be injector related but no idea. Mileage is now 68k.

Any thoughts out their?

Regards,

Mick
 
rmn said:
Hi,

Went to start my 2010 Panda 1.3 diesel cross yesterday after leaving it for about 30 minutes after 30 mile drive and initially it woudn't start. Engine span over fine, and at a good rate, but no attempt made by engine to fire. Took key out then replaced it and eventually it fired (key reference may be irrelevant). Once fired it idled and revved as it should. Got some more diesel (tank was 1/4 full but has been filled in previous week. Once again, initial reluctance to fire but did after a few attempts and ran fine. Later that day, engine cooled off, fired up fine. After about 5 miles engine light (orange one with rubbish pictogram of engine) came on though no change to engine. Finished journey which involved some long waiting in queres. Once home, stopped engine and started it gain, which it did, albeit with engine light still on. Went to see if it would start today andd guess what - no joys. Spins over fine after waiting for glow plug light to extinguish as per. Not even the slightests sign of life. On sticking my finger up the exhaust there was no evidence to suggest any unburnt fuel, just the usual black soot.

I have a nasty feeling it might be injector related but no idea. Mileage is now 68k.

Any thoughts out their?

Regards,

Mick
Click to expand...

Read the code
Read the code
Read the code


without this information we are diagnosing in the dark



you could try disconnecting the MAF sensor
 
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Also failing earth lead, and (more rarely) failing starter. Have seen both, with and without codes, but reading codes is definitely good first step.

(I have a 55 plate MJ at the moment with a slightly weak starter motor. No codes ever show up, but sometimes it takes 3 or 4 attempts to start. If you listen carefully you can just hear the difference in cranking speed between when it is going to start, and when it isn't. Both sound OK on their own, but noticeable when you know to listen for it.
I definitely WILL get round to swapping the starter at some point... deep joy.)
 
irc said:
I definitely WILL get round to swapping the starter at some point... deep joy.)
Click to expand...

I feel your pain. Now the nights are closing in, I've noticed my alternator is struggling to keep above 13.5 volts. The other night it dropped to 12.5 when I parked. Its always been up around 14.2 volts but not any more. It's done 120,000 so an alternator is on order and Im resigned to grovelling under the car (again) and fighting with (easy to fit in the factory) bolts but are near impossible on the car.
 
Ok, so I should read the code I think is the message? Having just consulted Mr Google I see these tools are not as pricey as I feared. Any suggestions / recomendations for a good diagnostic tool at a reasonable price - bearing in mind it won't (hopefully) be used everyday?

Regards,

Mick
 
rmn said:
Ok, so I should read the code I think is the message? Having just consulted Mr Google I see these tools are not as pricey as I feared. Any suggestions / recomendations for a good diagnostic tool at a reasonable price - bearing in mind it won't (hopefully) be used everyday?

Regards,

Mick
Click to expand...

Look on the forums User Register ;)

As MultiECUScan is £60 well spent

Charlie
 
If you have a Window laptop, you can use www.multiecuscan.net. You will need an adapter cable but they are similar cost to generic code readers. Download and install the software before plugging in a cable. The paid version does more stuff as you will see from their website.

I have these connectors which work fine
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281712496622
 
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scanner vary

basic only reads the engine

reads engine and gives live data number

reads engine and plots live data

reads engine, body, dash, abs, eps and so on plus plots data with different cables or a switch with a computer

multiplexed interface. Does all the above automatically with a computer

multiplexed stand alone

as you go up the tree the more expensive they get

just to read the codes a £10-£15 scanner will do the job. I have one. Really quick and easy to use. I have one like this that does the job.

more useful if you are going to do other work on your car is one that plots data

I know nothing about this scanner ThinkOBD 100 but can be had for around £25

if you have a windows laptop already a k-line cable or ELM USB cable and the free multiecuscan will work for under £10. Multiecuscan is limited to Fait (ish) cars
 
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Just as a word of warning, I recently got one of these cheap bluetooth ELM 327 interfaces for £8 to use with MultiECUscan but had to give up as it won't connect.

Bluetooth-ELM-327.jpg
I've seen YouTube videos (including our own PuntoHowTo channel) where they work fine, but I wouldn't be able to recommend them. Maybe a wired USB version might be more reliable? Personally I would go for the ones linked by DaveMcT above as a number of forum users have reported they're reliable.

MultiECUscan looks great, but it's certainly not plug & play. You may need to invest some time fiddling with COM port settings for bit rate and buffer speed to get it to work.

It's all explained in the MES user guide, but you'll need to be certain you have a reliable OBDII interface.

My 1.2 petrol recently had a failed crankshaft sensor (fault code P0335) which caused similar starting issues to those you've described @rmn. They're less than £20 and one bolt and a plug to swap. But mine was also abruptly stalling, so might not be the same cause.

I'd agree with above, it's best to get fault codes read before blindly swapping parts.
 
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AndyRKett said:
Have you tried here
http://forum.multiecuscan.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1493
Click to expand...
Hi Andy, thanks for the reply (and the video):)

Yes, I have tried that, even though my problem wasn't limited to CAN connection. MES couldn't connect with my ELM 327 at all (even though the ELM 327 showed connected as bluetooth OBDII device on my Win10 laptop).

I opened up my ELM 327 and inside it's nothing like the one in that thread - the circuit board is much smaller, no sign of that offending 120 Ohm resistor:
BT ELM 327.jpg
I've been through everything I can think of with g8rpi over on the 500 section here: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/476360-multiecuscan-2.html?p=4607158

Maybe just some of the cheap interfaces work and some don't? I can't be 100% certain it's a hardware issue yet as I haven't been able to try it with a reliable interface.
 
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One thing I would try before anything else is see if
the anti vacuum valve in the fuel cap is stuck it maybe
due to cars not running as much but I have come across
this 2 or 3 times in the last year never seen it before.
 
Hi,

Code is "P0087", "Fuel rail / system pressure too low". Incidently I took the fuel cap off and tried to start it but no joy. Any thoughts?

Mick
 
I’d be looking at the high pressure fuel pump if there is low rail pressure.
Common on many diesels but on the 1.3 pump seals are a common problem.

They are not hugely expensive on the 1.3 these days but could still set you back a few hundred.

The pump is on the back end of the front cam shaft above the gearbox. Looks a bit like a flux capacitor
 
Yep,

tried that but no joy. Code reading is P0087 - "Fuel rail / system pressure too low". Any thoughts?

Mick
 
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