Hi all,

Intermittent fault on my 2008 automatic Panda (Dualogic Gearbox). Been happening since I purchased second hand a few months ago.

When in the fault state the car will move as soon as the brake is released, without applying any gas (Like a continuously variable transmission) pretty quickly too. The idle is also rough, with the needle jumping about. Then the issue will resolve itself for a few days, before coming back.

I am considering changing the spark plugs or coil packs, any ideas if they could be the problem, or might it be something more to do with the clutch or ECU?

Any help appreciated.

High idle? Check for vacuumleaks. Probably a hose with a tear that sometimes closes itself.

gr J

PandaProblems said:

I am considering changing the spark plugs or coil packs, any ideas if they could be the problem, or might it be something more to do with the clutch or ECU?

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Almost certainly nothing to do with coils, plugs, clutch or ECU

You need to sort the High idle out


Throttle butterfly not shutting properly. gummed up
throttle position sensor
Idle control valve. If it has one. Cable bodies only
coolant sensor
throttle pedal


would be my start


any scanner equipment

A3jeroen said:

High idle? Check for vacuumleaks. Probably a hose with a tear that sometimes closes itself.

gr J

Click to expand...

does it cause High idle on the 169

might depend if cable throttle body


But I am fairly sure I have taken the airbox off will the engine running on a 2010 without any change in idle ?

Vacuumleak after the throttlebody. Extra air will make the ECU injecting more fuel and thus creating high idle.

gr J

A3jeroen said:

Vacuumleak after the throttlebody. Extra air will make the ECU injecting more fuel and thus creating high idle.

gr J

Click to expand...

true

was common in the early days of carbs and cars with a MAF

however I haven't heard of a inlet manifold or throttle body seal fail on a 169 Panda

Would be nice as an easy fix.

koalar said:

Almost certainly nothing to do with coils, plugs, clutch or ECU

You need to sort the High idle out


Throttle butterfly not shutting properly. gummed up
throttle position sensor
Idle control valve. If it has one. Cable bodies only
coolant sensor
throttle pedal


would be my start


any scanner equipment

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, I actually cleaned out the throttle body the other week, was gummed up pretty badly but didn't seem to fix the problem as it's still happening (I reinstalled correctly and performed throttle relearn).

It is an electric throttle, and a scan shows that the throttle position is agreeing with pedal position.

I reckon my best bet is to probably check for leaks as A3jeroen said and clean out some of the other sensors? If all else fails I have it booked in for a diagnostics in the garage Tuesday.

I have multiecuscan and an OBD connector.

I'd be interested in the throttle position angle with normal revs and when its at higher revs

koalar said:

I'd be interested in the throttle position angle with normal revs and when its at higher revs

Click to expand...

Multiecuscan doesn't want to display the throttle angle when the car is running for some reason, but with the key turned and engine off the throttle angle ranges from 7.0 degrees, to 7.2 degrees. Is that normal?

Hoping I don't need to buy a whole new throttle body, it seems the sensor is incorporated into the body itself and you can't replace it without getting a whole new body.

I should probably mention the car doesn't get used very often, on average it'll get an hour run every week. Just quick trips and not getting onto the motorway at all really.

I was expecting around 10% so in the right ballpark


what kind of gunk


Black soot
White oily mayo

or something else

Have a look for yourself, definitely black soot type gunk on the top, on the other side it was a dried stringy black stuff. All gone now though.

thanks for the photos

mostly oil inside the inlet manifold.

Did you check that MAP sensor. With oil in the inlet manifold I would expect oil on the sensor


Will not help with the problem. But check the little tube in the airbox isn't blocked. It's what normally causes an oil build up. Although the short round aren't going to help.

Little bit of oil on the MAP sensor alright, nothing like the pictures though and cleaning it there has made no difference.

Booked into the garage for the morning.

Thanks for the tip about the tube.

Back from the garage now and none the wiser. Mechanic chalked it up to a fault in the ECU within an hour. Seems like a big jump to be making, very easy to say ECUs bad without checking anything else.

I'm going to get the premium version of multiecuscan and give all the sensors a good look then go from there.

PandaProblems said:

Back from the garage now and none the wiser. Mechanic chalked it up to a fault in the ECU within an hour. Seems like a big jump to be making, very easy to say ECUs bad without checking anything else.

I'm going to get the premium version of multiecuscan and give all the sensors a good look then go from there.

Click to expand...

what. ECU how did they come to that ?


The free version of MES works fine on the engine sensors as far as I remember

Logs data fine just time limited

I found it more reliable than a full version which kept crashing on my setup.

koalar said:

what. ECU how did they come to that ?


The free version of MES works fine on the engine sensors as far as I remember

Logs data fine just time limited

I found it more reliable than a full version which kept crashing on my setup.

Click to expand...

I pushed him on it and he basically just said his diagnostic software costs a lot more than mine and put the blame down to the ECU. Didn't inspire confidence and sounded like a cop out really. You don't reckon it's the ECU yourself?

And I'll stick to the free version thanks.

in the last 5 years or so I have come across or heard about the wrong idle speed or fluctuating idle speed dozen or more times

so far its always been a sensor, throttle body, cable, throttle pedal or wiring.


I have yet to see it be the ECU. Odds are against. But can't be ruled out.

Very easy for the garage to blame the most complicated part then it's a blank cheque for repairs. Collecting the car tomorrow, I'll have another word with mechanic and see what was actually checked.

PandaProblems said:

The idle is also rough, with the needle jumping about. Then the issue will resolve itself for a few days, before coming back.

Any help appreciated.

Click to expand...

you need to look at the live data


rpm
expect rpm
throttle position
throttle pedal position
atmospheric pressure
ambient temperature


I would expect a vacuum leak to be seen by the MAP sensor and the ECU add more fuel just raising the RPM but not fluctuate them.



On my cars I can disconnect the MAP to eliminate it. Its hard to start needs a bit of throttle but settles down just throws an engine check light. I have three 05, 06 and 10 all run without it connected. Nobody else seems to manage it ? But there are a lot of different variables. But if it does it eliminates one more thing.

is it worse when you start the car and goes away after a long drive ?