Thanks for that, I'm waiting on a USB OBD connector, Multiecuscan doesn't seem to like my cheap Bluetooth one. When that arrives I'll look at the live data.

And yes this issue mainly arises when the engines colder, it settles down when travelling at speed and does partially resolve itself after a long trip.

PandaProblems said:

mainly arises when the engines colder, it settles down when travelling at speed and does partially resolve itself after a long trip.

Click to expand...

my 2010 car has just had these symptoms

I know there could be more than one cause

mine was cause by oil trapped in the inlet manifold

I had to remove the throttle body and MAP sensor and push a rag through

koalar said:

my 2010 car has just had these symptoms

I know there could be more than one cause

mine was cause by oil trapped in the inlet manifold

I had to remove the throttle body and MAP sensor and push a rag through

Click to expand...

Driving home from garage and noticed that the RPM was steady at 900 whilst idling, no rough idle. However the car still moved off on its own (with no change in RPM) I was also unable to shift into N. Is the needle lying or is there something else causing the car to move off and not shift into neutral?

I have attached some of the garages report also. There are no other codes other than those attached.

I use the free version of the AlfaOBD app and that shows gearbox faults. Your fault reminds me of a car that can't release the clutch fully. What's the mileage?

PandaProblems said:

Driving home from garage and noticed that the RPM was steady at 900 whilst idling, no rough idle. However the car still moved off on its own (with no change in RPM) I was also unable to shift into N. Is the needle lying or is there something else causing the car to move off and not shift into neutral?

I have attached some of the garages report also. There are no other codes other than those attached.

Click to expand...

does that mean we are making progress

is the fluctuating revs now gone

correct idle is 850 after the first few minutes so 900 is pretty close


There's no error logged for the transmission. The last page is just hand written notes


There's quite a few errors. However we dont know if they are old logged or current. Know more when we can scan and clear codes

koalar said:

does that mean we are making progress

is the fluctuating revs now gone

correct idle is 850 after the first few minutes so 900 is pretty close

Click to expand...

Yep! RPM fluctuation has all but resolved itself, now stable around 850 a few seconds after engine start.

However I thought the rough idle was the cause of the car moving off/not going into neutral... what could that be then :chin:

PandaProblems said:

Yep! RPM fluctuation has all but resolved itself, now stable around 850 a few seconds after engine start.

However I thought the rough idle was the cause of the car moving off/not going into neutral... what could that be then :chin:

Click to expand...

good. There's not much to be done until you can plug the diagnostics in

visual checks for leaks


make sure both brake lights are working


then when the cable arrives check the pressure as per here

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/439619-dualogic-troubleshooting-guide.html

The report mentions tiptronic - the gearbox ECU. Are you able to put it in to neutral at all?

MrMagoo said:

The report mentions tiptronic - the gearbox ECU. Are you able to put it in to neutral at all?

Click to expand...

I ignored this as its hand typed by the technician


the diagnostic report says no codes present for transmission


and the Panda doesn't have tiptronic, does it ? is there a model ?

OP main problem is creeping forward on its own

MrMagoo said:

The report mentions tiptronic - the gearbox ECU. Are you able to put it in to neutral at all?

Click to expand...

It is a tiptronic automatic gearbox yes (Thought I mentioned that in original message should have made it clearer). There is an automatic Panda model, although rare.

When the car starts it is in neutral, but once I put it in drive it won't go into neutral again unless I shut off the engine. Attempting to go from D to N results in a few beeps and "Operation not Admissable" on the dash.

The car will also move off on it's own as mentioned.

MrMagoo said:

What's the mileage?

Click to expand...

99,170 KM / 60,000 miles

I think the gearbox does exactly what it's supposed to do. As soon as the Rpm is higher as idle, the clutch engages. Thus preventing the gearbox to go to Neutral.
You need to find the cause for the high idle.

gr J

A3jeroen said:

You need to find the cause for the high idle.

gr J

Click to expand...

Well currently it's only idling around 850 (according to the needle at least) yet the car still moves off and refuses to go to N. Perhaps the clutch could be coming off. Going to use AlfaOBD later to check for gearbox faults as another poster mentioned.

Edit: Unfortunately that app is incompatible with Pandas in regards to gearbox diagnosis. The more threads I read about this the more I'm thinking I've an issue with the gearbox and the rough idle was just a coincidence and not the cause of the issue (rough idle seems to have resolved after a good drive). Oil contamination/slipping clutch perhaps?

A3jeroen said:

I think the gearbox does exactly what it's supposed to do. As soon as the Rpm is higher as idle, the clutch engages. Thus preventing the gearbox to go to Neutral.
You need to find the cause for the high idle.

gr J

Click to expand...

The fluctuating idle was caused by oil in the inlet manifold contaminating the MAP sensor


It been cleaned and after a Good drive the fault is now cleared


we now need to concentrate on the dualogic fault

To me tiptronic refers to flappy paddles which I believe wasn't standard on a panda

An leaks ?


seriously check that both brake lights work. Does all sorts of weird faults. Lots have been caught out by this





when you get your cable connect Multiecuscan.

from the dualogic diagnostic thread

Check the pressure by selecting 1 gear, R and Neutral the pressure should drop below 40 and should immediately pressurize to 50 bar then drop slowing to 40 before the electric motor kicks in. Switch off engine the pressure should remain steady and drop only 2-3 bars.



I am slightly concerned by the can bus errors. The transmission gets loads of information from elsewhere like engine rpm and wheel sensors. But unsure if the are genuine, current or logged.


when you get your MES up and running. Make a note. Then clear them

AlfaOBD free will show dualogic gearbox faults and sensors readings.

MrMagoo said:

AlfaOBD free will show dualogic gearbox faults and sensors readings.

Click to expand...

It only gives the option of engine diagnostics for '03 pandas, no gearbox. I was able to get the pressure readings from it though. Will post momentarily.

Mine is 2009 and it shows everything. Are you selecting Panda 06 Type 169?

koalar said:

Check the pressure by selecting 1 gear, R and Neutral the pressure should drop below 40 and should immediately pressurize to 50 bar then drop slowing to 40 before the electric motor kicks in. Switch off engine the pressure should remain steady and drop only 2-3 bars.

Click to expand...

Brake lights working fine, this pressure is confusing me though.

Before engine start pressure matches atmospheric, 1014mbar, or 1 bar. However after engine start pressure drops instantly to 300mbar, 0.3 bar. Shifting to drive causes a jump to 400mbar, rising slowly to 500mbar. Turning the engine off causes the pressure to return to atmospheric instantly.

Are the units incorrect in that quote? When my engine's running my pressures were always sub-atmospheric at around 0.3/0.5 bar, however in the post you referenced OP's engine is 40/50 bar? Furthermore when engine is switched off the pressure instantly returns to atmospheric, but theirs "remain steady and drop only 2-3 bars."

Something definitely wrong here, am I looking at the wrong pressure sensor? Only seen 1. See attached.