General gear oil spec,s

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General gear oil spec,s

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Hi, Can any one on here, tell me the right spec gear box oil for 1,2 petrol panda 07 reg. Reason i ask, been to different outlets and given different spec,s (not glasses)75/80 /75/90 also75/85. Some say semi synthetic some say fully synthetic . Haynes manual total rubbish...Thanks now::bang:
 
owners manual
 

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I use 75W-90 triple qx semi

its plenty good enough and dirt cheap in my opinion but fully synth is specified


full synthetic has a larger service interval


the important thing is there enough in there. if they overheat the plastic cage melts then the bearing will fail quickly.
 
i got properly stitched up but more the fool me for not ordering in advance. Millers are good but not low cost especially for 1 litre.

The six speed uses just shy of 2 litres. The 5 speed is 1.6 litres (IIRC)
 
Hi, Can any one on here, tell me the right spec gear box oil for 1,2 petrol panda 07 reg. Reason i ask, been to different outlets and given different spec,s (not glasses)75/80 /75/90 also75/85. Some say semi synthetic some say fully synthetic . Haynes manual total rubbish...Thanks now::bang:

i should have said that any listed will be fine
75/80 full synth is the closest but less common read more expensive 75/85 is close enough

and mines on 75/90 semi and okay even in this cold weather just because i am a cheapskate and it was the cheapest i could find
 
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This is what I run both our Panda and my boy's Punto on:https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=2401 Couple of bottles of this every 5 years or so does me just fine.

i doubt it makes any difference

that's a GL-4 oil
manual states the GL-5 CZ 75 version

however i haven't checked but i think the older Puntos specified GL-4 and its the same gearbox


the most important is to have clean and correct amount



i may have miss read something somewhere
 
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Try searching "gear oil API GL4 GL5" on the forum. There's a lot of stuff to read about it. I've contributed a number of times to threads about this. Maybe this might be of interest to you: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/484102-gearbox-oil-change-2.html?p=4567165
Further to that link to Opie oils above. This lockdown has given me plenty of time to think about lots of things and one of them has been the statement made near the end of that Opie oils article. Near the end, in italics, it says that "Only GL5 is still valid and verifiable. Even GL4 is no longer valid and new oils can no longer be tested to this specification because the test equipment is no longer available"

I think this may explain the confusion which exists today for us enthusiasts who are not "industry insiders". Can we perhaps read into this that all new gear oils are tested to the GL5 standards which is why so many now have GL5 on their containers but perhaps the actual formulation varies depending on the intended application. This might explain why our Panda gearbox oil recommendation seems to have seesawed over the years. If this is the case it would seem to me that it's even more important than ever that you use exactly the oil specified by the manufacturer for your gearbox?

Talking about seesaws, did you know the Yanks call a seesaw a Teeter Totter?) https://www.google.com/search?q=tee...0i10i395l6.11019j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Strange or what? I found that out when I had the grandchildren out for a day at a playpark in Southern Maryland when they lived there. A local woman, who was there with her kids, had no idea what I was talking about when I suggested one of her kids might like to share the seesaw with my granddaughter. I overheard her telling the "clutch" of Mums over at the coffee stall all about it.
 
Try searching "gear oil API GL4 GL5" on the forum. There's a lot of stuff to read about it. I've contributed a number of times to threads about this. Maybe this might be of interest to you: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/484102-gearbox-oil-change-2.html?p=4567165

post 2 is a photo of the owners manual from a 07 panda which is a GL-5

i have checked the Punto and post 2012 Panda and they are GL-4 in the owners manual

I find it strange that the manuals state 3 different oils in essentially the same gearbox all in the tutela range

i am not going to worry about it. Any clean gear oil is better than the grinding paste or none left in most gearboxes

75/80, /75/90, 75/85, GL-4, GL-5, semi or full i suspect makes little difference.

fiat have realized that the input bearing are failing and have added some oil galleries to feed the bearings with gear oil on the input side of the gearbox. There needs to be sufficient oil to keep these working.

looking at the two gearboxes here that still the failure point.
 
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I find it strange that the manuals state 3 different oils in essentially the same gearbox all in the tutela range

i am not going to worry about it. Any clean gear oil is better than the grinding paste or none left in most gearboxes

75/80, /75/90, 75/85, GL-4, GL-5, semi or full i suspect makes little difference.

fiat have realized that the input bearing are failing and have added some oil galleries to feed the bearings with gear oil on the input side of the gearbox. There needs to be sufficient oil to keep these working.

looking at the two gearboxes here that still the failure point.

Does seem strange doesn't it? Maybe they just thought there was nothing in there that would be affected so went to the GL5 spec - which does seem to have a more robust constitution - then later got cold feet and changed their minds again?

I've sometimes put a thicker than spec oil in old boxes partly to try to quieten them and also because the actual spec I was looking for just wasn't on the shelf. (maybe an 80/90 when a straight 75 isn't there). Mostly the only problem is that the gear shift is stiff and reluctant to engage when the oil is cold. 5 miles down the road and it's not too bad. Long term wear might be a problem on some boxes if the design of the box slows down the flow to something like a needle roller bearing etc.

I didn't know about the oil gallery mods although I'm well aware of the 1st motion shaft bearing problems. Our old Felicity ('92 Panda) had a noisy one but as she only did a couple of thousand "shopping" miles a year she seemed to just carry on regardless. I did an oil change and look carefully at the stuff I'd drained out but it looked nice and clean with no sign of any "bits" in it. Do you know when they started making the newer box with the oil gallery mods? is it likely our 2010 Panda 1.2 Dynamic Eco will have this?
 
I think this may explain the confusion which exists today for us enthusiasts who are not "industry insiders". Can we perhaps read into this that all new gear oils are tested to the GL5 standards which is why so many now have GL5 on their containers but perhaps the actual formulation varies depending on the intended application.

You are correct new gear oils are tested to the GL5 standard but even though GL4 is technically obsolete there are still a lot of vehicles on the road that either require it or perform better with it. As oil manufacturers have been making GL4 for years, they know the profile so it is easy for them to produce still.

These days the only difference between GL4 and GL5 is the amount of the same EP additive used, the GL5 uses more but this can cause it to be too slippy for gearboxes recommended GL4.

If in doubt, you can always go for one that is both GL4 and GL5 but these tend to be 75w-90 oils.

Cheers,

Guy
 
These days the only difference between GL4 and GL5 is the amount of the same EP additive used, the GL5 uses more but this can cause it to be too slippy for gearboxes recommended GL4.

If in doubt, you can always go for one that is both GL4 and GL5 but these tend to be 75w-90 oils.

Cheers,

Guy

Thanks very much for that Guy. So the "extra slippiness" could make syncro cones slip and cause crashed changes?

Has the problem with degredation of soft, yellow metals now been dealt with in GL5 spec?

regards
Jock
 
Thanks very much for that Guy. So the "extra slippiness" could make syncro cones slip and cause crashed changes?

Has the problem with degredation of soft, yellow metals now been dealt with in GL5 spec?

regards
Jock

Jock,

You are spot on, if the gear oil is too slippy it can lead to crunching during gearchanges especially at high rpm.

The additive used that damged yellow metals was abandoned by all reputable oil companies the UK during the mid 1960's (yes, how long the yellow metal myth has been going on!).

Often what happens, is say a high quality GL5 is used in an application that is much happier on GL4 and the gears start to crunch. The first thought after looking on the internet is yellow metals are getting eaten by the GL5, the gearbox gets drained and bits of yellow metal are found and then it is confirmed the GL5 is eating the yellow metal, when in fact that is not the case at all. The yellow metal comes from wear of the synchros due to the poor shift of GL5 being too slippy for that application.

GL4 and GL5 these days use the same yellow metal safe EP additives just in different amounts.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Guy
 
Jock,

You are spot on, if the gear oil is too slippy it can lead to crunching during gearchanges especially at high rpm.

The additive used that damged yellow metals was abandoned by all reputable oil companies the UK during the mid 1960's (yes, how long the yellow metal myth has been going on!).

Often what happens, is say a high quality GL5 is used in an application that is much happier on GL4 and the gears start to crunch. The first thought after looking on the internet is yellow metals are getting eaten by the GL5, the gearbox gets drained and bits of yellow metal are found and then it is confirmed the GL5 is eating the yellow metal, when in fact that is not the case at all. The yellow metal comes from wear of the synchros due to the poor shift of GL5 being too slippy for that application.

GL4 and GL5 these days use the same yellow metal safe EP additives just in different amounts.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Guy

fiat specify GL4 a few years later GL5 and a few year later GL4 again. In the same gearbox. Confirms it makes little difference these days. One of Fiats oils is GL/GL5 does that make halfway or safe for for both GL4 and 5 applications
 
fiat specify GL4 a few years later GL5 and a few year later GL4 again. In the same gearbox. Confirms it makes little difference these days. One of Fiats oils is GL/GL5 does that make halfway or safe for for both GL4 and 5 applications
Maybe explains Petronus Tutela Technyx GL4+ ? No one could decide what to call it? Thank you Guy for the GL4/GL5 yellow metals explanation. That's the first time I've seen a plausible explanation for why GL5 seems to be recommended for some boxes which I wouldn't previously dared to use it.

If the myth goes back to the '60's that explains why it's so strongly embossed on my memory. Astonishing it's still got traction to this day isn't it. Perhaps a bad failure on the oil company's part not to have educated us all better though?
 
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If the myth goes back to the '60's that explains why it's so strongly embossed on my memory. Astonishing it's still got traction to this day isn't it. Perhaps a bad failure on the oil company's part not to have educated us all better though?

Nothing changes proven by the reputation that Fiat cars are supposed to have bad wiring and rust within days.
 
fiat specify GL4 a few years later GL5 and a few year later GL4 again. In the same gearbox. Confirms it makes little difference these days. One of Fiats oils is GL/GL5 does that make halfway or safe for for both GL4 and 5 applications

It is not uncommon for manufacturers to flip flop around a bit and many gearboxes are happy on either GL4 and GL5.

Indeed GL4/GL5 oils are the best of both worlds, claiming the performance of a GL4 and passing the EP test required to meet GL5.

Cheers,

Guy
 
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