Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Maybe explains Petronus Tutela Technyx GL4+ ? No one could decide what to call it? Thank you Guy for the GL4/GL5 yellow metals explanation. That's the first time I've seen a plausible explanation for why GL5 seems to be recommended for some boxes which I wouldn't previously dared to use it.

If the myth goes back to the '60's that explains why it's so strongly embossed on my memory. Astonishing it's still got traction to this day isn't it. Perhaps a bad failure on the oil company's part not to have educated us all better though?

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GL4 Plus technically does not exist, but I beleive they are GL4 performance and pass the old GL5 ep test requirements but not the current, hense they do not state GL4/GL5.

As for oil companies educating better, tough one. I can't see them doing that anytime soon!

Cheers,

Guy

Good morning Guy. I don't want to sound rude, but can I ask, in my ignorance, where your knowledge base comes from about this subject? I'm very interested in many aspects of the motor vehicle, it's been a lifelong passion which has not diminished as I've aged. Tyres and lubricants in particular fascinate me. I'm finding what you have to say very interesting and very much in line with what I've come to understand over the years. I also notice that you have the Opie brand as your avatar so can I assume you are something to do with them? I like Opie very much and have been the recipient of very helpful advice and bought oil for the "family fleet" on several occasions over the last few years and will be buying again this spring when they are all going to need services. Hope you don't mind me asking this - no offence intended - I'm just amazed at the depth and breadth of knowledge and advice available on this forum, looks like you may be moving this on and expanding it considerably!
Kindest regards
Jock

Hi Jock,

I am indeed connected to Opie Oils, it is owned by my family.

I have been doing oil recommendations (amongst other things) for 17 years or more.

The online side of it came about when my brother got an RX8 when they were brand new, he was a founder member of the RX8oc and soon discovered there was a lot of oil mis information and mis understanding on the net and in forums. The rest is history

I am pleased you have found our service and price good, we have put a lot of work into it over the years to be, what we believe to be the best and most knowledgable online supplier of lubricants. Thank you for choosing us!

Cheers,

Guy

oilman said:

Hi Jock,

I am indeed connected to Opie Oils, it is owned by my family.

I have been doing oil recommendations (amongst other things) for 17 years or more.

The online side of it came about when my brother got an RX8 when they were brand new, he was a founder member of the RX8oc and soon discovered there was a lot of oil mis information and mis understanding on the net and in forums. The rest is history

I am pleased you have found our service and price good, we have put a lot of work into it over the years to be, what we believe to be the best and most knowledgable online supplier of lubricants. Thank you for choosing us!

Cheers,

Guy

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Thanks for that Guy. Who knows, maybe it was you who answered some of my "silly" questions!

A Mazda Wankel eh? Did you see the Walter Mitty video I posted elsewhere? It features a very special race prepared RX3 and is wonderful to view cast onto a large screen TV with Cans over your ears - Mrs J does not share my enthusiasm for "wonderful" engine noises! It's one of my all time favourites so here it is, again, just in case you missed one of the several times I've previously posted it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq52IUB2h2Q. Look out for the Sunbeam Tiger - a car I deeply covet - It's about the only one to convincingly show him a clean pair of heels, can't compete on the corners though!

I buy some stuff from Powerenhancer too but I get the impression their range of product range is narrower and more specialized and I find you are much better, with a wider choice, for the sort of vehicles I get involved with. Just of late I've been having a bit of a problem with service parts. I get my Fiat stuff mostly from Shop4parts and they are great, in fact I hold them in high regard. But for the others Vauxhall, Seat, Honda, and the occasional "foreigner" I'm thrown back onto my local factor who sells Trade branded oils and parts I've often never heard of - for instance "Trade Tec" oil made by Exol maybe? and "Comline" filters? - Obviously he's supplying a lot of the garages around here with them so they must be OK but I just feel I can do better buying my oil from you (I rather like the Fuchs, different "brews" of which I've been using in nearly all the cars now for the last two years.) Maybe time to try your service packs which include filters too? Well done with the ebay special offers too. I've made worthwhile savings looking out for them in the past.

By the way I changed to the Fuchs because when the Ibiza (early 2016 reg 1.0 litre 3 cyl turbo petrol EA211 engine) warranty was up I decided The factory recommended Castrol, which comes in a 4 litre size so you just, only just, get a sump full out of it, was inconvenient at that size (I'd rather have it in a 5 litre so there's a wee bit for top ups if needed) but more than anything, volume for volume, I thought it (the Castrol) was expensive. I looked at several possibilities but something kept attracting me to the Fuchs. I emailed Fuchs themselves and got a very informative reply with recommendation and an equally useful reply from you folk - maybe it was actually you. I am using your recommended Fuchs Titan GT1 Proc-3 5W-30 and all runs beautifully. In fact, on our long journeys down south and back (not now of course) I get bang on 60 mpg over the 450 miles, cruising at the legal limit wherever possible. If I look down the filler orifice on the cam cover it all looks "squeaky clean" inside. I was also very interested to see that the Quantum brand (which I previously bought from TPS but can't get access to now I'm retired - trade accounts only) and which was a Castrol oil, is now supplied to them by Fuchs - still branded Quantum though. So if Fuchs is good enough for VAG it'll do for me! I probably use half a litre to top up between services (time/mileage based - don't believe in extended interval) which just leaves a wee bit to put in the general duty oilcan for locks and hinges!

So yes, you've got a very happy customer here who knows he's getting the "real deal" from you and I'm never going to have to worry about receiving the wrong product or it being old stock. Impressed too with your packaging which has always survived getting to me up here in Edinburgh with everything inside in good condition.

Cheers Guy, There'll be an order on it's way when the weather warms up a bit. At 74 I'm not into "arctic" repairs any more!

As you folks might have realized I'm quite into drag racing. My real love is Competition altered class but If you want to see some really crazy Wankel engined machines how about these. Hint, look at the times and speeds they are doing at the end of the quarter mile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICEZLaQ5fk
By the way, although it adds to the spectacle, they are doing those smokey burn outs to heat up the surface of the tyres (tires in American) so they become super sticky and can engage with the traction compound which is also applied to the start area of the "strip"

Technically this is pretty good if you can stand the music and American chat - no offence intended to you guys on the other side of the pond, I'm sure my Scottish accent seems just as strange to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oiIDRLtOpU

Just to round it out and bring some sanity back, here's the good old piston engined stuff I really love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6TWsq45NF8

You should go one day if you get the chance, the noise and smell of burning rubber and partly burnt Methanol/Nitro methane just has to be experienced. Some of these things are producing 8,000 horsepower or more and the acceleration and "violence" is almost unbelievable to witness. For me though, it's wandering around the cars and looking at all the little engineering features and "tweeks". When I first stArted watching this sort of thing back in the '60's they would judge their Launch revs, now a days they all rely on rev limiters and you can hear the engines popping and banging as they get ready to launch.

Anyone else on here follow drag racing or have an interest in speed hill climbing which is what I tend to watch more on this side of the pond?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gigrcnUZTAw

Hey Jock. Check this out. Four rotor Wankel race engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogekJfgdzMQ

Thanks Dave. Really really really enjoyed that! I loved his "old school" torque wrench and stuffing the oil pump with Vaseline. I was taught to do that years ago because not only does it let it really suck the oil up from the sump when you first crank the engine with no oil in the pickup pipe but it also melts and completely emulsifies into the oil when hot so there is no danger of it blocking small oilways which could happen if you use grease. - Never fire up a rebuilt engine before you've cranked it on the starter, with plugs out, until it develops oil pressure (warning light out at a minimum). When I went on the courses for the Borg Warner type 35 and 65 we were taught to use vaseline to hold thrust washers etc in place during assembly for the same reason. In some ways, with all those seals round the casings etc that engine almost looks more like an epicyclic type automatic?

I'm pretty ignorant about the finer points of Wankels but the crank end float fascinated me. Can you imagine building up a piston engine with end float like that! Mind you, I've seen the old Triumph straight sixes with end float which could rival that!

The Le Mans car (Johnny Herbert driver I think?) has some good videos on you tube and it sounds pretty good. These engines are LOUD. I remember the RX3 saloon racers back in the 70's. you could hear them over the other side of the circuit even when something like a straight six BMW was going past the pits just feet away from you! All open pipes in those days of course - glorious - no wonder I have tinnitus now!

oilman said:

Often what happens, is say a high quality GL5 is used in an application that is much happier on GL4 and the gears start to crunch. The first thought after looking on the internet is yellow metals are getting eaten by the GL5, the gearbox gets drained and bits of yellow metal are found and then it is confirmed the GL5 is eating the yellow metal, when in fact that is not the case at all. The yellow metal comes from wear of the synchros due to the poor shift of GL5 being too slippy for that application.

GL4 and GL5 these days use the same yellow metal safe EP additives just in different amounts.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Guy

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That's pretty subtle isn't it Guy. I never thought about it that way. It's easy to see how it would prolong the myth though?

However, whether it's the yellow metals being "eaten" or abraded by friction, it makes little difference to the fact that you must use the recommended lubricant if long life of the assembly is to be expected.

So, if we accept that you are going to look for a compliant product (ie. GL4/GL5 or whatever according to the manufacturer) I then find myself enormously attracted by the allure of some of the top end expensive brands. However when it comes to the crunch I tend to always go for the actual brand recommended by the manufacturer because I find myself always wondering "what if there's something in there which is an unknown - because the manufacturer has not tested this product - and might be less than efficacious? Mind you I am one of nature's great worriers.

Well I've bought some 75w90 GL4 spec castrol syntrans oil for my gearbox that I'll be putting in after lockdown, I'll update if my transmission blows up

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Anyone else on here follow drag racing or have an interest in speed hill climbing which is what I tend to watch more on this side of the pond?

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I enjoyed that, thanks Jock. I've been to Prescott and Shelsley Walsh a few times, one of the things I enjoy most about the meetings is the diversity of machinery, from pre-war cars up to the latest hillclimb formula, there's something for everyone.

A particular highlight for me was the V16 Auto-Union and V16 BRM both at the same Shelsley Walsh meeting a few years back. Great to see them both being used properly.

I've taken part in the Kop Hill event a few times, it's not competitve or timed (or, being Buckinghamshire, much of a hill), but some wonderful cars and 'bikes going up. It was a treat to have the Ecurie Ecosse (who used to operate out of Murchiston Mews in Edinburgh) collection show up a couple of times, Jaguar C&D types, Coopers and Tojeiro-Buick, and also the wonderful transporter itself (not my photo).


Supercharged flat two-stroke with three bores but six pistons, each pair going head to head in a shared combustion chamber. Good article on it at Motorsport Magazine here.

Another one for Jock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQjqImHruJE

rmjbn1 said:

I enjoyed that, thanks Jock. I've been to Prescott and Shelsley Walsh a few times, one of the things I enjoy most about the meetings is the diversity of machinery, from pre-war cars up to the latest hillclimb formula, there's something for everyone.

A particular highlight for me was the V16 Auto-Union and V16 BRM both at the same Shelsley Walsh meeting a few years back. Great to see them both being used properly.

I've taken part in the Kop Hill event a few times, it's not competitve or timed (or, being Buckinghamshire, much of a hill), but some wonderful cars and 'bikes going up. It was a treat to have the Ecurie Ecosse (who used to operate out of Murchiston Mews in Edinburgh) collection show up a couple of times, Jaguar C&D types, Coopers and Tojeiro-Buick, and also the wonderful transporter itself (not my photo).

View attachment 215297
Supercharged flat two-stroke with three bores but six pistons, each pair going head to head in a shared combustion chamber. Good article on it at Motorsport Magazine here.

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You'll probably not be surprised to learn I hang out around the Doune Hillclimb mostly. It's narrow and with lots of armco at the bottom so great precision is needed. If you don't know it here's some footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kufacVXlSc The righthander with the green bales straight ahead is "Garden Gate" and always very slippy as it never dries out properly under the trees - claims a lot of unwary victims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh8b8pxf0cc

Getting south to your big venues requires time and planning and costs so I can only really do it if I can combine it with one of our journeys south to see my daughter and her family near Salisbury or sister in law down in Devon Luckily my son in law - the aeronautical engineer - finds it interesting so we usually go together. He then reciprocates by taking me to air shows which are always interesting because, having been an instructor at ETPS, he knows most of the pilots and other very interesting people and I get to wander around and look at all the interesting stuff close up. The last hillclimb we went to together was Gurston Down - Very enjoyable. As you say invariably something for everyone and you get to look at the cars really close up.

I've seen the V16 BRM a couple of times - Don't think I've heard anything with an engine noise like it and so much power (around 700bhp I think) and a bit of an "all or nothing" tap to be turned on and off? but I envy you having seen the Auto Union! I've seen a you tube clip of it at the Goodwood hillclimb and I loved the sound. I've heard of Kop Hill but, apart from knowing it's not a "competitive" event I don't know anything else about it. Ecurie Ecosse? As a Scot what can I say? Bow down and grovel in the dirt at their feet! And to know that they were based in my own home town - very proud! I've never seen a Tojiero Buick in the flesh. I'd love to hear it too.

The Commer Transporter engine? that'll be one of the fabled "Knockers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3TTE469f58 They made a unique noise, once heard never forgotten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wol_U4mkjs A glorious sound pulling hard up a steep hill!
Kindest regards, stay safe
Jock

Thanks Dave, enjoyed that! I think these guys have done a whole series featuring the development and build of that engine, some of which I've watched, hadn't seen this one though. Flame seared burgers at morning tea break comes to mind?

Thinking about the noise of the Commer engine brought memories of the coalman delivering coal to our house as he had a dark blue flatbed Commer coal lorry beautifully pin striped in gold. Lots of coal dust everywhere as the bags were emptied and my Mum scolding us for getting all dirty! Then the noise of the engine as he pulled away up the hill afterwards, still heavily laden with sacs of coal all neatly stacked in rows leaning against each other.

This memory was quickly followed by remembering the sound of Wattie's (the farmer next door) Field Marshal Tractor. When it had been down in the bottom fields near the river and so had to haul a load back up the track to the farm half way up the hill, you could hear it's distinctive "bark" for miles. An absolutely unique sound I've never forgotten. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ8XnotHSZ8 As an "ignorant" youth I also loved that it was started with a 12 bore shot gun cartridge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEurohAwrmA

Can confirm the 75w90 Castrol Syntrans oil works great. Put it in yesterday and the gearbox is much quieter, highly recommend.

RayovacWorkhorse said:

Can confirm the 75w90 Castrol Syntrans oil works great. Put it in yesterday and the gearbox is much quieter, highly recommend.

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Can I ask, what sort of noise was your gearbox making?

Mine was quiet apart from crunching occasionally on downchanges to third when I got it.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I also put 75w90 in and it was much better. Maybe the higher viscosity at operating temperature than the specified 75w80 helps?

Although if I understand correctly from Guy at Opie Oils above, it's the API GL4 spec over GL5 that should help with this.

rmjbn1 said:

Mine was quiet apart from crunching occasionally on downchanges to third

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Mine was quite noisy at idle (in neutral out of gear with the clutch up it had sort of a low grumble to it, clutch down? Silence!) and it also had quite a whine to it when driving. After the oil change, the noises are still there, but much less pronounced. Gear shift feels a lot smoother too, seems to pop into gear much better, took it for a 40 mile drive today and it's loosened up nicely, best it's been since I got the car 3 years ago. I will also add the old oil had a light dusting of gear glitter in it, but not a huge amount!

I did get that crunch you mentioned when shifting into 3rd occasionally, but I have not had it since I changed the oil, only time will tell once I have a chance to put some more miles on it!

Thank you RW

rmjbn1 said:

Mine was quiet

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I should probably qualify this by confessing I'm more used to 2CVs, MX5s and old cars generally, so 'quiet' might be a relative term... I suspect my standards might be a bit low
So long as I can't actually hear any metal grinding, I assume everything's fine...

100 miles in and no 3rd gear crunching, should have happened at least once by now! Looks like 75w90 is the way to go! Much easier to change gears too now, looks like going up and down the M42 a couple of times has worked the new oil in, was suspecting the shifter cables at first but now it seems fine!

RayovacWorkhorse said:

Mine was quite noisy at idle (in neutral out of gear with the clutch up it had sort of a low grumble to it, clutch down? Silence!)

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That's a classic symptom of a worn gearbox input shaft bearing. It's allowed to run free in neutral so you hear the rattle. Putting the pedal down supports the shaft and damps any noise so the rattle goes away. To confirm, press a long screw driver to the clutch end of the gearbox and press the handle against your head just behind your ear. With engine running, you will hear the noise change as the clutch is open/closed.

It a common problem on many cars. Some have double sealed greased bearings (other like Fiat) do not.