General gear problem selecting.

[midnight578]

Hi,i have a 07 panda never lacks for anything, ie parts if required..It has 118 thousand on the clock., at 112 thousand it had new full clutch LUK, slave cylinder LUK plus gear box oil changed. Just recently it has been a bit reluctant to select 1st or reverse, turn engine off no problem. When in engine bay and someone operates the clutch you can hear a type of slurping noise near gearbox. There is no loss of clutch fluid. My question is as anyone had a slave cylinder go after 6 thousand mile, plus if the garage put wrong spec oil in gear box would this be the problem? Any help most appreciated.. Ps 1.2 petrol (not a boy racer) Thank you.

 

[koalar]

lets see if we can diagnose this without guessing every part thats caused this in the past


with the car wheels stationary engine idling

of you select reverse is there a grinding noise then goes into gear

or

does it feel like its jammed but you can force it in


as to your question about gear oil. I flushed mine out engine oil. It ran just fine with no gear selection problems on the wrong oil. So doubt any selection problems is due to oil grade.

 

[koalar]

engine running

assistant pushing the clutch pedal down

twist the selector lever on top of the gearbox

is it smooth to engage 1st and 2nd

Please be careful. The fan can cut in at anytime even with the engine off.

if its fine here have the assistant try inside the car to make sure it still failing

 

[midnight578]

hi, koaler thanks for reply, its like the last part of reply

 

[koalar]

do test two and move the lever red arrow. Engine running assistant pushing the clutch pedal down.

I suspect this will also be smooth


if thats the case the clutch, hydraulics and gearbox are fine.


and the problem will be adjustment or cables


we had a similar problem a month or so ago after a clutch change. Unfortunately the thread went dead before a solution was found although leaving the plate that holds the cables loose was a temp work around

 

[midnight578]

Thanks again for reply will try this tomorrow and let you know

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

Mine's had a similar issue since I got it with 12k on it, now on 31k. 1st can be a bit stiff and reverse almost always has a bit of a crunch before it goes in, clutch also squeaks a bit sometimes. Was thinking of changing the gear oil but I'm not sure if this would help...

Always thought it might be cables myself, when I've got the time I'll have to check all the linkages, if I ever see a cheap set of cables I might swap em in and see if it helps.

 

[DaveMcT]

The clutch operating fork often develops a squeak. It's annoying but not not really an issue. However noise when the pedal is down could be the release bearing having dried up. Noise in neutral with the pedal untouched that goes away with pedal down is the gearbox input bearing.

 

[koalar]

Mine's had a similar issue since I got it with 12k on it, now on 31k. 1st can be a bit stiff and reverse almost always has a bit of a crunch before it goes in, clutch also squeaks a bit sometimes. Was thinking of changing the gear oil but I'm not sure if this would help...

Always thought it might be cables myself, when I've got the time I'll have to check all the linkages, if I ever see a cheap set of cables I might swap em in and see if it helps.

crunch in reverse is normal if you don't let the gearbox slow down.

wheels stopped

clutch pedal to the floor

wait a few couple of seconds. Engage reverse

if you don't wait or the wheels are still rolling forwards it will always give a clunk


Stiff 1st

same tests as start of the thread


what is the result of engine on and off

what is the result of moving lever (red arrow) with an assistant pushing the clutch down.

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

crunch in reverse is normal if you don't let the gearbox slow down.

Crunch is present even at a standstill, e.g just after starting the car and going straight into it.

what is the result of engine on and off

what is the result of moving lever (red arrow) with an assistant pushing the clutch down.

Same stiffness when it's off, had my grandad go through all the gears the other week while I had a look at the shifting mech and it looked normal, apart from being a bit stiff of course. When I was installing a short shifter (problem was present before this dw) too the lever felt normal and slotted into gear just fine moving it by hand, which makes me think it could be a cable issue. Pretty sure the gear oil is original to the car too, so once lockdown is lifted I'll be changing it as even if it isn't the issue, it is probably over 10 years old.

 

[koalar]

Crunch is present even at a standstill, e.g just after starting the car and going straight into it.

foot fully down on the clutch wait a few seconds before engaging reverse[B}


Same stiffness when it's off, had my grandad go through all the gears the other week while I had a look at the shifting mech and it looked normal, apart from being a bit stiff of course. When I was installing a short shifter (problem was present before this dw) too the lever felt normal and slotted into gear just fine moving it by hand, which makes me think it could be a cable issue. Pretty sure the gear oil is original to the car too, so once lockdown is lifted I'll be changing it as even if it isn't the issue, it is probably over 10 years old.

engine off

twist the lever with the red arrow

does it go into First and second easy from here

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

Yup, that's what I was doing while installing the short shifter.

 

[koalar]

Yup, that's what I was doing while installing the short shifter.

the gearstick up and down is a bit of a funny mechanism

the opposite end of the lever is a counter weight

its the momentum that helps to pull the cable as well.

if the gear selector cable is dirty or rusty it work from the gearbox end but not from the stick

put I can't see the short shifter gearbox helping the situation. By reducing the distance your increasing the force required

does it improve if you revert back to standard

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

does it improve if you revert back to standard

Nope, it was the same before with the old counterweight, just the gear change is much quicker, bear in mind the gear goes in fine 80% of the time, just that 20% of the time it gets quite stiff and hung up on something, which makes me think it's the cables. Also, I know it was always parked in gear by the previous owner and it was not driven much as it was just his shopping car, reckon this have damaged the insides of the cables?

 

[DaveMcT]

Parking the car in gear will not damage the shifter cables. The cables only see a load when the lever is being moved. It's wise when parked on a hill and it avoids the hand brake seizing up.

I can't remember if there is a gate at the gear lever end or if its simply a ball movement. However a miss-match here with the gearbox will make shifting difficult.

When I replaced the gear shifter oil seal on top of the gearbox, I was shocked to find the roll pin broken. It fixes and internal lever to the shaft. I simply knocked it out and replace with new (supplied with the seal). Mine worked fine but it's possible that could affect the shifter operation.

If you have exhausted all options (short of replacing cables) I'd suggest checking the internal shifter on top of the gearbox. It's an easy job** and you can replace that oil seal and roll pin while in there. You will need some Loctite 518 for the gasket face.

Set the box in neutral before doing the job and it will all go back together no worries.

** Much easier than changing the cables which are probably ok.

 

[koalar]

Nope, it was the same before with the old counterweight, just the gear change is much quicker, bear in mind the gear goes in fine 80% of the time, just that 20% of the time it gets quite stiff and hung up on something, which makes me think it's the cables. Also, I know it was always parked in gear by the previous owner and it was not driven much as it was just his shopping car, reckon this have damaged the insides of the cables?

pry off the ball and socket from the large leaver

lift the cable vertical

and work some thin oil down the cable

clean off as much as possible to stop grit sticking to it

if it improves the cables will be slightly corroded inside. The improvement is normally only temporary. There are two types of cable. The ones with Black boots on the end are the ones I have had fail.

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

if it improves the cables will be slightly corroded inside. The improvement is normally only temporary. There are two types of cable. The ones with Black boots on the end are the ones I have had fail.

I'll give it a go once we're out of lockdown and I can get to my tools, thanks for the advice! My cables do have black boots on the end. Quick read of the Haynes manual shows that replacing them shouldn't be too hard so lets hope it's that, got any tips for removal and refitting?

 

[DaveMcT]

You do know that Hayne "fib"

I really think that replacing that oil seal and roll pin on the shifter shaft is a much easier job than fitting new cables.

Remove the dash panel around the gear lever. Every day, dribble some 3in1 oil down the cables. Gravity will take it all the way down.

 

[koalar]

I'll give it a go once we're out of lockdown and I can get to my tools, thanks for the advice! My cables do have black boots on the end. Quick read of the Haynes manual shows that replacing them shouldn't be too hard so lets hope it's that, got any tips for removal and refitting?

not really its straight forward



the ball sockets are fairly tight I use two tyre levers


if you use second hand the post 2012 can be made to work. Its spring loaded to the left. Having driven both I would consider it a slight upgrade if you can live with the mismatched interior. You will need it as a complete set. The plate on top of the gearbox cables and gearstick. The Knob will be Black. Both the original and Black gaiter can be made to fit. The grommet in the middle has to be cut off and swapped over. There is a mold line to cut down with a Stanley knife. Sound more complicated than it is on ramps its less than hour including the faffing about



the cables only fit one way round the ends are different



there is an adjustment on the left to right cable. There is a button you push and set a gap with a drill.. I don't remember the setting. Its not on elearn but is in the Haynes manual. I don't have the manual I just borrow from the library. You could just measure beforehand but it doesn't seem too critical and can be guessed. As long as it goes easy into 2nd, 4th, 5th its fine.


you start by lifting the plastic ring holding the gearstick gaiter down. Then just undo every screw you can see.

there's always one clip that fights you at the bottom right of the surround. Its hard to explain but very easy when you've got the knack. You leave it in place and tip the whole surround towards the steering wheel a bit. It then pops out easy

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

There is a button you push and set a gap with a drill.. I don't remember the setting.

Yup, in the manual it says to use a Fiat adjustment tool, but because they know nobody will have those, they say to use an 8mm spacer, so I'll probably use an 8mm drill bit.

I'll probably stick with the standard 169 shifter, as I've got quite a nice leather gaiter on it and it would be a pain to remove, plus matching interior and all. Also when removing the ball sockets I found that a 13mm open ended spanner worked quite well when I was installing the short throw shifter.