Hello my new best friends!

My daughter has just bought a 2011 1.2 panda with 61000 miles.

The car runs quite well but under medium or greater acceleration the car hesitates and dies a bit briefly before it picks up revs again. Not great when joining an A road or going uphill. At higher revs it seems OK and it also idles Ok.
I wondered if the issue was the spark plugs. They are due to be changed at 40,000 and 80,000KM so should have been picked up at the last service. I have no receipts or details so I don't know if that happened.

I took a plug out and can see the end that doesn't spark is clean but slghtly bent. The ceramic is not cracked. The end that sparks is dirty though.. See pics. Should i replace them all along with the leads or would that be a waste of time and cash?

Many thanks!

Looking at your pictures, I'd say they haven't been replaced recently.

Who did the last service, and do you have a detailed receipt showing the parts used? If not, you can probably assume the plugs weren't changed.

Regardless, the OEM plugs (which yours are) are rubbish; the car will run better with iridium replacements and they'll last much, much longer.

NGK DCPR7EIX are the ones you need. Fit these now and they'll almost certainly not need looking at again for the remaining life of the car; they're good for at least 60000 miles. The more precise tolerances and sharper electrodes mean they can run with a slightly smaller plug gap (0.8mm instead of 1.0mm), which has the additional benefit of putting less stress on the coil packs.

If you do go the iridium route, under no circumstances ever try to regap the plugs; the tips are brittle and might break off inside the engine if you do.

There's a huge thread in the 500 section on spark plugs for the 1.2 FIRE if you're interested in the background to this.

rgoldiea said:

Hello my new best friends!

The car runs quite well but under medium or greater acceleration the car hesitates and dies a bit briefly before it picks up revs again. Not great when joining an A road or going uphill. At higher revs it seems OK and it also idles Ok.

Many thanks!

Click to expand...

They look fairly new ?


Its quite a specific mid range misfire under load so doubt the plugs will make any difference.

jrkitching said:

If you do go the iridium route, under no circumstances ever try to regap the plugs; the tips are britlle and might break off inside the engine if you do.

There's a huge thread in the 500 section on spark plugs for the 1.2 FIRE if you're interested in the background to this.

Click to expand...

Smashing .. thanks! I want to replace the plugs and then drive it so I know exactly what difference - if any - it makes.

I think common wisdom is to replace the leads also ?

Show all four plugs in the same shot

Keep them in order so you know which came from which cylinder


Would help a lot

rgoldiea said:

I think common wisdom is to replace the leads also ?

Click to expand...

You can if you want to, but leave it for at least a few days after you've changed the plugs.

Only do one thing at once, or you'll never know what made the difference.

rgoldiea said:

See pics.

Click to expand...

Now that I've looked at your pictures again, I'm wondering if these are the right plugs for your engine.

The 1.2 Panda engine changed in 2010/11 from Euro4 to Euro5; there are significant differences between the two versions and the OEM plugs are different.

The ones in your picture are correct for the Euro4 engine; the Euro5 OEM plugs have a projected tip. You can tell if you have a Euro5 engine by the VVT actuator in the cam cover.

The image below shows both plug types side by side; the ones on the left are from the Euro5 engine, fitted to cars manufactured from about late summer 2010 onwards.

However, if you're fitting iridium plugs, you have only one choice - the DCPR7EIX. These work well (from considerable real world running experience) in both engine types.

koalar said:

Show all four plugs in the same shot

Keep them in order so you know which came from which cylinder


Would help a lot

Click to expand...

Here you go. Top (or left when rotated with the spark bit at the top) is the left hand SP when facing the car engine. Thanks for input koalar!

Someone has already tried to fix it by changing one of the spark plugs. Second one up. By the looks of it

Thanks. I couldn't tell by looking at the engine if its Euro 4 or 5 The maintenance book says 169A4000 but I think could be 4 or 5 ?
The Spark Plug type is NGK ZKR7A-10

All the plugs are the same (See photo reply to Koalar) If I replace them I may go iridium and so that removes the question of what plugs are right

koalar said:

Someone has already tried to fix it by changing one of the spark plugs. Second one up. By the looks of it

Click to expand...

Does look newer doesn't it. So you think I would be wasting my time with changing all the plugs?

The outer electrode is well worn down in the bottom plug. Not a place it should be arcing to.

So yes they will need replacing.

Have to see how it goes. Fingers crossed it’s just the plugs

Any engine check light ?

rgoldiea said:

Does look newer doesn't it. So you think I would be wasting my time with changing all the plugs?

Click to expand...

They do clean themselves with I unburnt fuel if that’s the cylinder that isn’t firing. However the rest of the plug looks newer and the bottom one is worn out

Generally No... but when it bogs down it does flicker on briefly and then off again once engine gets over the hesitation spot at lower revs

The iridium ones seem alot more expensive. I suppose you get what you pay for! As this car will be unlikely to do high mileage I was going to avoid the expensive ones but if your experience tells you the drive and durability are worth it then I'll reconsider. There are alot out there .. where do you buy from generally do you mind me asking ?

Standard plugs are normally good for 20 000 miles and can be normally stretched beyond that


Don't get me wrong iridium are good fit and forget. But if you aren't going to doing High mileage the standard plugs are going to last several years.


Any history on the car


FPT will have been fitted at the factory or dealership

Flickering code should be read. Can point you in the right direction unless its a generic P030? code

koalar said:

Flickering code should be read. Can point you in the right direction unless its a generic P030? code

Click to expand...

I am going to try the standard plugs first. This car may not do that many miles and I can always change them again if need be.

There is no engine warning code just the yellow engine icon that flickers on.
But will re assess once the car is back on the road.

1 last question for you and jrkitching is whether a torque measuring tool is required to put the plugs back in or is hand tight enough?

Many thanks!
Robert

On a new plug you can do it by angle

http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/qa/q18/index.html


It important not to drop the plugs down the hole it’s easy to bend the end. No point in gapping every main manufacture put a little protector to stop them getting bent.

An easy way to tighten spark plugs which I’ve done for decades without any problem is to....finger tight then tighten approximately half way.