Hi All

Am trying to replace spark plugs on a Fiat Panda 2011 1.2 petrol
To get access to the plugs I needed to remove the engine cover and a few videos on youtube suggested that there was just 2 screws either side easily accessible and 6 screws at the front to separate the filter part (Pic 1). What they didn't show was another fixing at the back and a hose which was out of sight... without too much pressure both are now broken off! Pic 2 :bang:

Anyone removed the engine cover and how did they do it ?
Is it easy to replace altogether. along with any attachments?

Many thanks

I expect the Youtube video you watched was for an earlier Panda 1.2. If yours is a 2011 1.2 it must be the VVT 1.2 Euro5 engine which has a slightly different arrangement at the top.

Here's a better guide :

https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/Fiat_500_1.2_spark_plug_replacement.shtml

Good luck, and by the way, your throttle body looks very very oily so something ain't right, maybe that breather hose you've snapped off is blowing very oily air into the throttle body.

Tell us more about why you're changing the spark plugs, is it a routine service or is there something wrong?

The layout there bears no relation to the 2004 and 07 I owned..

Fully agree about the grubby intake

I couldnt figure out what has broken..

Was it a screw.on part.. or a plastic lug?

varesecrazy said:

The layout there bears no relation to the 2004 and 07 I owned..

Fully agree about the grubby intake

I couldnt figure out what has broken..

Was it a screw.on part.. or a plastic lug?

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That's because your 2004 and 2007 were a different engine. The bit the OP has broken is the plastic spigot that the breather pipe clips onto.

Can anyone with this later Euro 5 engine confirm if the throttle body is typically so filthy and oily? The throttle in my Euro 4 engine stays very clean indeed.

onecleanfinger said:

I expect the Youtube video you watched was for an earlier Panda 1.2. If yours is a 2011 1.2 it must be the VVT 1.2 Euro5 engine which has a slightly different arrangement at the top.

Here's a better guide :

Good luck, and by the way, your throttle body looks very very oily so something ain't right, maybe that breather hose you've snapped off is blowing very oily air into the throttle body.

Tell us more about why you're changing the spark plugs, is it a routine service or is there something wrong?

Click to expand...

Hi Thanks for reply !
In hindsight I should have come here first.
I looked at the pics in the link you sent (thanks ) but still those just mention removing the two screws on either side of the cover and not the black fitting at the back.
See photo - this bit has snapped off but could possibly be repaired with super glue or even tape.

But the hose that has broken also I wasn;t aware of at all and that is going to be tricky to fix to say the least.

The car doesn't accelerate smoothly. In second or third and low revs try and accelerate and it will hesitate and die a bit then catch on again So its drivable but not ideal. I assumed that the spark plugs were the first point of call along with the air filter.

I could well be wrong of course!

Hi Thanks for reply.

2 parts broke - 1 was a black circular thingy (See pic in reply to onecleanfinger) with a rubber surround and no clear head I could see to try and unscrew. I thought it may be a something that popped out and so I tried that and it snapped off.
I then discovered the hose which I didn't realise was there and that has snapped also being a plastic fitment and not something screwed on.

I'll try and get a better pic tomorrow Would be great if someone with the same model year could confirm!

Thanks!

Go on to eBay and look up Speedyfix black two pack glue. It is truly astonishing stuff for black automotive plastic. I successfully, and very easily repaired my breather tube to my airbox as the same thing happened. It has also fixed the rear mounting rubber holding hoop on the back of the airbox that was broken when I bought the car. its a sort of superglue with a reinforcing powder that works instantly.

If the breather pipe is broken off it seems a lot of oil gets out of the pipe and fouls up the engine and base of the throttle body. Just make sure you clean the plastic really well with methylated spirits or similar prior to use and rough slightly with emery paper. I cannot recommend this stuff too strongly. Both my repairs have seen over 10000 miles and are still good. Little bits of plastic rarely stick but this will do the trick.

onecleanfinger said:

I expect the Youtube video you watched
Here's a better guide :

Click to expand...

ahhh.. I can see my issue in the fifth photo on your link.
That photo shows the engine cover from the engine and the manifold breather hose still attached.

In my case the manifold breather hose has broken its link with the manifold. Damn it!

I can also see the circular bit on the engine cover still in tact that attaches to the black round fitment thing on the cars body. Mine has broken off here too .. but those steps / picures don't mention having to do anything special to get it free from that.

The Panda Nut said:

Go on to eBay and look up Speedyfix black two pack glue. It is truly astonishing stuff for black automotive plastic. I successfully, and very easily repaired my breather tube to my airbox as the same thing happened. It has also fixed the rear mounting rubber holding hoop on the back of the airbox that was broken when I bought the car. its a sort of superglue with a reinforcing powder that works instantly.

If the breather pipe is broken off it seems a lot of oil gets out of the pipe and fouls up the engine and base of the throttle body. Just make sure you clean the plastic really well with methylated spirits or similar prior to use and rough slightly with emery paper. I cannot recommend this stuff too strongly. Both my repairs have seen over 10000 miles and are still good. Little bits of plastic rarely stick but this will do the trick.

Click to expand...

Great stuff. Many thanks for advice!

varesecrazy said:

I couldnt figure out what has broken..

Click to expand...

This looks very similar to the airbox installation on the Euro5 500; my Euro4 Panda (2010) is different and doesn't have the screws holding the airbox together.

There are no end of reports in the 500 section from folks who've encountered broken airbox pipes and lugs; they're very fragile and will break if you don't know exactly how to remove the airbox without damaging it. Basically the technique is to first loosen the airbox and pull it away clear of the throttle body (if you encounter resistance, you haven't undone everything), and only then remove the breather hoses, taking great care not to snap off the airbox fittings (the small breather pipe is particularly fragile). If you try to remove the breather hoses when the airbox is still firmly attached, you're likely to break something.

On the 500, many of these were broken by dealers during routine servicing.

Fiat only sell the airbox complete, and the price is eye watering. Most secondhand ones from the breakers will have broken fittings, so buyer beware if you go this route.

The suggestion to repair using adhesives has merit, but beware that these connections are quite highly stressed when fitting the hoses and, even with the best adhesives, it might not work. The best way to degrease and prepare for gluing is to clean with acetone, but avoid any that is sold as nail varnish remover as it will likely contain moisturining oils, which you don't want.

I've had some success with plastic repair in difficult situations with polyester resin & fibreglass; the kind of stuff that's used for fibreglass roofing. If you can wrap a resin soaked glass bandage around the broken section of pipe without interfering with the hose attachment, it'll likely work.

The small breather fitting in particular is difficult to reattach; a better plan is to find (or make if you have a lathe) a suitable threaded brass nipple, drill a hole in the airbox inlet and screw it in for a better than new repair.

Thanks (again!) Some of what you suggest sounds a bit technical for me ! I'll try the plastic fix first and see where that takes me. Would brake cleaner do to get the plastic clean enough?

rgoldiea said:

Would brake cleaner do to get the plastic clean enough?

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Depends on what's in the brake cleaner; they're not all the same.

The old fashioned trade stuff that was a mixture of methylene chloride and perchloroethylene (basically paint stripper + dry cleaning fluid) would work great, the more modern environment-aware ones that are naptha based (basically refined petrol) perhaps less well.

The big advantage of acetone is that, as well as any surface oil, it'll also remove water (most won't), and moisture is the last thing you want when you're trying to glue plastic together.

On an oily airbox, I'd degrease first with hyperclean, then wash it off with soapy water & rinse well, finishing with an acetone wipeover.

Putting the plastic parts in a warm, dry place (the airing cupboard is good, but don't tell the wife) before gluing will also help eliminate any moisture.

If you try to do it outside in the current weather, it likely won't work.

As has been said, adhesive technology has come forward by leaps and bounds in recent years; the dental industry has led the field and many of the techniques are starting to work their way into other applications; some of the UV curing resins look particularly promising.

You've broken the small throttle body breather pipe off the bottom of the airbox.

As JR writes, it's very common with the 69hp version as the plastic barb is brittle and the whole joint is hidden by the airbox, if you don't know it's there you'll break it.

The older 60hp engine has this breather moulded into the main crank breather as a Y shaped pipe on the other side of the airbox.


In future, reach around the right hand side of the airbox and trace that small pipe back to the throttle body, it'll pull off the throttle body end far easier than pulling at the airbox end with that brittle barb!

I doubt you'll glue the barb back on, the airbox vibrates too much, I've tried!

You can try opening the hole up just enough to jam the pipe back in (minus the broken barb stuck in the pipe end).
If it's a snug fit (but not crushed), it should hold but you could use a bit of hot glue on the outside to help hold it in.

Thanks Goudrons So the 'barb' bit you talk about is actually a fitment where the breather pipe attaches to the airbox . I thought it was all one piece I had snapped. I havnt looked at it again but will do so today and get the other hoses off so I can see what going on Its depressing that a proper fix for such a common mistake seems to involve a complete engine cover / airbox!

Yes, the plastic barb has been snapped off the airbox.

It's very common and easy to rig up a fix as I wrote above.

The smaller breather is just that, it's plumbed into the intake so any fumes get burnt off, same as the crankcase breather.

Re the oily throttle body, my 2011 was just like that when I looked last week, my first concern was head gasket but there are none of the other usual indicators so I assumed it was due to lots of short journeys before I bought it.Having done some longer runs now I'll check in the next week if it is still like that.
Certainly not something I had experienced with an earlier 1.1 Panda

Caterman said:

Re the oily throttle body, my 2011 was just like that when I looked last week, my first concern was head gasket but there are none of the other usual indicators so I assumed it was due to lots of short journeys before I bought it.Having done some longer runs now I'll check in the next week if it is still like that.
Certainly not something I had experienced with an earlier 1.1 Panda

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Give it a good clean with carb cleaner and a rag and you will see if there any new build up

Yes, not the easiest to get into all the nooks and crannies and I'm always nervous of the potential to drop something into the throttle body.