Technical Coil pack failing?

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Technical Coil pack failing?

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My 169 1.2 gets excited by being driven quickly. At 80 on the speedo the engine management light starts flashing at me after just a few miles. The MES syas its a misfire on cylinder 3. If I slow down to 70 (real 65) it stops flashing quite quickly. The car is running well but does misfire on start up if its damp and cold just for a few seconds. Any suggestions? I suspect the coil pack but dont want to spend a bucket of cash if it might not be the real cause. I just did the 50K service this afternoon and the car is a 69HP 1.2.

Thanks!
 
My 169 1.2 gets excited by being driven quickly. At 80 on the speedo the engine management light starts flashing at me after just a few miles. The MES syas its a misfire on cylinder 3. If I slow down to 70 (real 65) it stops flashing quite quickly. The car is running well but does misfire on start up if its damp and cold just for a few seconds. Any suggestions? I suspect the coil pack but dont want to spend a bucket of cash if it might not be the real cause. I just did the 50K service this afternoon and the car is a 69HP 1.2.

Thanks!
Is this a later type ,1.2 with the variable valve timing?


I think it is being a 69,hp

I assume you can't notice at actual misfire at those speeds?

If so it probably needs a phonic wheel relearn to tell the ECU the relative position of the crank and cam.pulleys
 
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My 169 1.2 gets excited by being driven quickly. At 80 on the speedo the engine management light starts flashing at me after just a few miles. The MES syas its a misfire on cylinder 3. If I slow down to 70 (real 65) it stops flashing quite quickly. The car is running well but does misfire on start up if its damp and cold just for a few seconds. Any suggestions? I suspect the coil pack but dont want to spend a bucket of cash if it might not be the real cause. I just did the 50K service this afternoon and the car is a 69HP 1.2.

Thanks!

Each ignition coil does two cylinder 1-4 and 2-3

If you swap them over you should get


1 or 4 error instead of Cylinder 3


Only takes a minute to do as you can swap the leads over. At least they were long enough to reach on my car


Phonic learn doesn't apply to the the panda. And certainly will not be affected by damp. But the engines with both a cam and Crank sensor can get out of sync. Just need the battery disconnected for a few minutes. Restart the car and let it idle for a minute
 
Each ignition coil does two cylinder 1-4 and 2-3

If you swap them over you should get


1 or 4 error instead of Cylinder 3


Only takes a minute to do as you can swap the leads over. At least they were long enough to reach on my car


Phonic learn doesn't apply to the the panda. And certainly will not be affected by damp. But the engines with both a cam and Crank sensor can get out of sync. Just need the battery disconnected for a few minutes. Restart the car and let it idle for a minute

Thanks for this suggestion
I have one coil pack with four leads one for each plug so I am not sure if I can do this. I did wonder about swapping the coil pack from the 2014 312 a but although its similar its not identical and I dont want to damage it... Are you referring to the two lead coil packs I have seen for sale for some Pandas? The coil pack can be had for 45 from ECS with their 45% discount this week but its still a lot to spend as an experiment. Unfortunately my lap top is under repair so I cant use MES to get the exact error code out. Just working from memory from the last time this fault occurred.
 
Is this a later type ,1.2 with the variable valve timing?


I think it is being a 69,hp

I assume you can't notice at actual misfire at those speeds?

If so it probably needs a phonic wheel relearn to tell the ECU the relative position of the crank and cam.pulleys

Well you have me there, I didn't realise there was any variable valve timing. Its one of the last 169's and as you may have read above it has a similar coil pack to the 312 but thats all I know You are correct I cannot actually notice any misfire and once the light stops flashing you would be none the wiser about the issue. Generally it runs entirely sweetly but does feel a bit down on power on hills relative to the 2014 car. The only signs of trouble are the flashing engine light and its a bit temperamental in the morning if its damp and has been left outside, which is a rarity. Once I get my lap top back I ill try the Phonic wheel relearn you suggest. The timing belt was done by a Toyota garage so maybe it should have been done and was missed. Poor old car has had service but from Honda, Ford, Ford and Toyota last time was Fiat. They need to be congratulated for doing the sump plug up so tight. I recon at the very least 175lb/ft needed to remove it I wonder the plug didnt tear out of the sump and ditto the filter. In 45 yeas of car ownership I have never experienced a filter that took so much force to remove it. There was little left of the filter when eventually it came off. It does make me feel totally justified in cancelling two service contracts earlier this year!
 
Thanks for this suggestion
I have one coil pack with four leads one for each plug so I am not sure if I can do this. I did wonder about swapping the coil pack from the 2014 312 a but although its similar its not identical and I dont want to damage it... Are you referring to the two lead coil packs I have seen for sale for some Pandas? The coil pack can be had for 45 from ECS with their 45% discount this week but its still a lot to spend as an experiment. Unfortunately my lap top is under repair so I cant use MES to get the exact error code out. Just working from memory from the last time this fault occurred.

My mistake I thought they all had two ignition coils

My 05 1.2L 06 1.1L and now 10 1.2L

What year did they change.
 
Well you have me there, I didn't realise there was any variable valve timing. Its one of the last 169's and as you may have read above it has a similar coil pack to the 312 but thats all I know You are correct I cannot actually notice any misfire and once the light stops flashing you would be none the wiser about the issue. Generally it runs entirely sweetly but does feel a bit down on power on hills relative to the 2014 car. The only signs of trouble are the flashing engine light and its a bit temperamental in the morning if its damp and has been left outside, which is a rarity. Once I get my lap top back I ill try the Phonic wheel relearn you suggest. The timing belt was done by a Toyota garage so maybe it should have been done and was missed. Poor old car has had service but from Honda, Ford, Ford and Toyota last time was Fiat. They need to be congratulated for doing the sump plug up so tight. I recon at the very least 175lb/ft needed to remove it I wonder the plug didnt tear out of the sump and ditto the filter. In 45 yeas of car ownership I have never experienced a filter that took so much force to remove it. There was little left of the filter when eventually it came off. It does make me feel totally justified in cancelling two service contracts earlier this year!

Yep

Just repaired a Hyundai. So tight that the last few services it wasn't changed. Dated 2013 which would have its First service

Had to puncher it and smash it off.
 
Hi All

back to the misfire symptoms, misfiring for a few seconds on start up and at high speed(strain).

by any chance its not very early signs of a head gasket failure on a 1.2. I might check to see if all the spark plugs are similarly coloured and if one is very clean that might be a sign.

Tim
 
My mistake I thought they all had two ignition coils

My 05 1.2L 06 1.1L and now 10 1.2L

What year did they change.

If yours is a 10 and mine 11 mustve been around the end of 10. Another example of progress not being positive as the new pack is much pricier than the old double pack. Mind you I removed the lower hose on the 2014 car to change the coolant, and it leaked after wards. A new o ring failed to reseal it so I had to get a complete hose, Guess what...

Fiat wanted £118.67 for a bottom hose and elbow connector. I dont know who they think they are fooling. I bought a Gates one made in USA and sent to Germany and then sent here and it cost £100 less. Maybe Peugeot will realign parts prices before too long. One can but hope.
 
I had a similar problem on my 100Hp. (I know this one has a different coilsystem). Misfiring, loss of power and flashing or constant MIL when driving it hard (which I never do;)) and no issues when driven gently. MES said it was a problem on cilinder 1 so I swapped coils 4 and 1 and the fault moved with it.
4 new coils (€ 100) and new sparkplugs and I can drive it anyway I like again:D
I'd invest the 45 pounds and a set of plugs.

gr J
 
I had a similar problem on my 100Hp. (I know this one has a different coilsystem). Misfiring, loss of power and flashing or constant MIL when driving it hard (which I never do;)) and no issues when driven gently. MES said it was a problem on cilinder 1 so I swapped coils 4 and 1 and the fault moved with it.
4 new coils (€ 100) and new sparkplugs and I can drive it anyway I like again:D
I'd invest the 45 pounds and a set of plugs.

gr J

I think I will get the coil pack on the basis of what you say sounds similar. I can keep this coil pack as a spare for emergencies.
 
I think I will get the coil pack on the basis of what you say sounds similar. I can keep this coil pack as a spare for emergencies.

I have just bought 4 pencil ignition coils for a Suzuki Alto for £14 including delivery. They are £40 each new. Turned out fine


Should have looked more closely my 2010 also has a single pack under the air filter.


I'd be tempted second hand.

Be worth inspecting the outside if its been slightly faulty for a while they normally show up on the outside.
 
What year did they change.

They changed with the introduction of the 69HP VVT Euro5 engine, which happened during 2010.

I'd be tempted second hand.

Me too. I'd expect it shares the same coil pack as the Euro5 1.2 500 of similar vintage (but do check part numbers to confirm this), of which there are plenty around.

This one, for example.

At least it's only a two minute job to swap the pack.
 
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Heres my faulty Suzuki one. Worth a Good visual inspection. Also the connectors.
 

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I have just bought 4 pencil ignition coils for a Suzuki Alto for £14 including delivery. They are £40 each new. Turned out fine


Should have looked more closely my 2010 also has a single pack under the air filter.


I'd be tempted second hand.

Be worth inspecting the outside if its been slightly faulty for a while they normally show up on the outside.

I have had a look and its looks fine. I did notice one of the old plug ends was a different colour that the others which may suggest something developing but all the plugs looked very similar and normal when I changed them. If the coil pack doesn't make any difference I can flog the old one on eBay.... Over many years I have worked out that its not worth going second hand on critical parts, I used to do it and econ it cost more overall. Often they ae fine, but when you get several in a row that are no good its a killer on the mechanics morale. Mind you I have a run of 3 duff alternators on a Citroen GS many yeas ago. I got the swap down to 40 minutes in the end, and you should see just how bad it is to get at that part! I may just swap the coil pack off the 312 and see if it does the job it looks different but I cant see why. Probably just a different supplier.
 
When our 60HP 1.2 developed a coil fault I changed the pair. Experience with coil problems on bikes and cars tells me that when one is failing its partner won't be far behind.

On the 100HP, I was able to find the bad coil with an IR thermometer. Start the car from cold and aim the laser pointer at the exhaust stubs. One was cooler so I swapped the coils around (HP has stick coils) and the cool stub moved. I replaced the bad coil but later replaced the lot.

On the BMW bike I suspected a coil fault but swapping the coils had no obvious effect. The bike ran intermittently badly until one day it went on to one cylinder. New coil problem fixed(?) Less than 10 miles down the road, the other coil packed up so I limped back and bought another. At £80 each that was a pretty painful day for the wallet.

Had I used the IR thermometer trick I might have been able to diagnose it sooner.
 
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When our 60HP 1.2 developed a coil fault I changed the pair. Experience with coil problems on bikes and cars tells me that when one is failing its partner won't be far behind.

On the 100HP, I was able to find the bad coil with an IR thermometer. Start the car from cold and aim the laser pointer at the exhaust stubs. One was cooler so I swapped the coils around (HP has stick coils) and the cool stub moved. I replaced the bad coil but later replaced the lot.

On the BMW bike I suspected a coil fault but swapping the coils had no obvious effect. The bike ran intermittently badly until one day it went on to one cylinder. New coil problem fixed(?) Less than 10 miles down the road, the other coil packed up so I limped back and bought another. At £80 each that was a pretty painful day for the wallet.

Had I used the IR thermometer trick I might have been able to diagnose it sooner.

Great tip thanks. I have an IR thermometer and will try this trick on the daughters Seat which I suspect of having a faulty coil too. Probably broke this fitting it badly... I agree fitting one is a false economy.

Panda is a single 4 pack so I am going to change it. I can keep the old one as an emergency spare as it is still working most of the time.
 
Fitting one coil can be OK but if the car has many miles then you need to budget for the other three as they won't lasting much longer.

The IR trick won't work on a hot engine as the heat soak across the cast manifold hides the cooler exhaust stub. I used it from cold checking as the exhaust warmed up.
 
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