rmjbn1 said:

I used to be a bit sniffy about drum rear brakes, but they do seem to cause a lot less trouble!

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At the end of the day, in practice, you are "stuck" with what you've got and just have to do the best to make it work that you can with regular maintenance.

However the Disc Vs Drum argument for rear brakes is another of my favourite wee rants. My preference is for drums unless you really need the performance advantages of a disc - which I would argue you don't on the likes of our Pandas and Puntos? Drums are enclosed so just don't get "attacked" by the elements like discs and their calipers do. They are considerably cheaper to maintain (compare the price of a cylinder against a caliper) and, in my experience, if maintained properly, much less prone to handbrake or cylinder seizure. I could go on - winding back frequently "reluctant" caliper pistons when renewing pads? but I'll resist the temptation - Oh, I didn't did I?

supernova83 said:

A week ago I had two front tyres fitted due to bad alignment scrubbing them (pulling left), looking face on to the car, steering wheel centred, it could be clearly seen the left wheel toed out. Wheels were re-centred at the same time, I'm happy this was done as the bloke was good enough to let me watch.

:bang: Was all good for 60/70 miles, now once again pulls left, and the left wheel can be seen to kick out again, when driving straight the steering has to be corrected to the right, that will be hurting the tyres again, don't want to be ruining £55 a tyre again

.

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defo not the rear axle.

I have towed a car that has slipped off the road hitting a curb putting two wheels in the air. Braking the drive shaft, bending the lower arm, pushed the strut back, creased the passenger footwell, bent the anti roll bar. Looking at it you could see the wheel was offset in the wheel arch. Yet even with this much damage it didn't kick out.


if its out by so much it should be obvious where the fault is ?

if its Good for 60 miles it should be Good for 60,000 unless something is worn or loose

needs sorting ASAP

any update ?

My bet is on the bottom arm bush(s). I get mine from Shop 4 Parts in the hope they'll be good quality.

supernova83 said:

Wonder if he tightened the lock nut properly ?
Bloody cars going to bankrupt me, love it though

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So originally you've noticed the N/S front wheel appearing to be visibly splaying out - so it must have been quite a lot to have seen it with the "Mk 1 eyeball"? You had a mechanic readjust the whole thing and it's driven fine for a while before the symptoms returned and you're now noticing that left same front wheel seems to be toeing out again? Wondering if the track rod locking nut has been tightened is a good call but unlikely if the mechanic had any idea at all about what he was doing, also the rod would have to screw itself into the track rod end to increase toe out - so again unlikely.

On both occasions it's been the N/S front wheel you've noticed to be toeing out excessively so I would be betting there's something quite serious going on with the suspension/steering on that corner of the vehicle. With this much variance going on I can't believe that someone who knows what he's doing wouldn't spot it quickly.

If you do nothing about it I suspect you may find yourself sitting in the ditch somewhere and thinking to yourself "Oh, so that's what it was" or other words to that effect! Assuming you are in any sort of condition to have an interest in what went wrong that is!

Good luck with the ongoing investigations. Do let us all know what it turns out to be in the end.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

If you do nothing about it I suspect you may find yourself sitting in the ditch somewhere and thinking to yourself "Oh, so that's what it was" or other words to that effect! Assuming you are in any sort of condition to have an interest in what went wrong that is!

Good luck with the ongoing investigations. Do let us all know what it turns out to be in the end.

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When disaster strikes, it tears the curtain away from the festering problems that we have beneath them,

Barack Obama

New tyres will mask tendencies to pull. Swapping them side to side can effect a 'cure' for some time before the problem shows again.

There have been several posts about Panda pulling gently to the left. Some don't.
Mine has had a 4-wheel laser alignment on three occasions, and all show different toe at the rear wheels. The first two were with the original axle, the last with the aftermarket replacement, so accurately copied it shows the same readings. Makes me smile thinking about that.

Booked in the garage next weekend, going to get the pry bars out and give the front suspension a good going over, going to remove the rod ends and make sure all the threads are in good order and not slipping, even going to check the UJ on the steering column for any wear that could affect getting the correct alignment, basically anything mechanical, then onto the four wheel "super tracker" to make sure everything is pointing where it should be.
Failing that I shall forklift into into works skip the following monday

Well, if:

• lower arms
• drop links
• strut top mounts

have all been replaced within the last year or so, that only really leaves the TREs that locate the front wheels...

Unless something wasn't installed correctly.

Haven't there been some cases of top mounts being fitted upside-down?

Best of luck

if one wheel is 10 degrees pointing outwards

as you drive in a straight line down the road both wheels would both point out by 5 degrees and if you stop both sides would look the same.


as you can see one wheel different at rest. it must be moving under the braking load while coming to rest


Jack up the car and push and pull on the outer edge of the tyre at the 3 and 9 o'clock position would be my first port of call. While shinning a light at the joints

supernova83 said:

... remove the rod ends and make sure all the threads are in good order and not slipping

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An interesting concept.

portland_bill said:

An interesting concept.

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same as any screw thread, if its been damaged at some point there's a chance it could slip

supernova83 said:

Booked in the garage next weekend

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So was that the weekend just past or the weekend yet to come? Please let us know the outcome won't you?

Hey guys, sorry for disappearing for a while, Mr German saloon fetched me off my motorcycle :tosser:, I needed a few more repairs than the car. Anyway I'm fighting fit again the mighty panda is fixed :worship: turns out it needed the inner tie rods replacing, the problem was actually much worse on the right side, the ball joint nearest the rack was barely holding together. there was enough in/out movement to alter the alignment when driving. two new inners and rod ends and all seems well.
On the advise of my usual garage, I have written to the head office of the company who fitted the tyres and alignment check as that should have been easily spotted when adjusting and certainly should have been mentioned as a safety issue. Ill probably get offered a free MoT as an apology :shrug:

supernova83 said:

Hey guys, sorry for disappearing for a while, Mr German saloon fetched me off my motorcycle :tosser:, I needed a few more repairs than the car. Anyway I'm fighting fit again the mighty panda is fixed :worship: turns out it needed the inner tie rods replacing, the problem was actually much worse on the right side, the ball joint nearest the rack was barely holding together. there was enough in/out movement to alter the alignment when driving. two new inners and rod ends and all seems well.
On the advise of my usual garage, I have written to the head office of the company who fitted the tyres and alignment check as that should have been easily spotted when adjusting and certainly should have been mentioned as a safety issue. Ill probably get offered a free MoT as an apology :shrug:

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Thanks very much for updating us. So sorry to hear of your misfortune - I hope there are no long lasting repercussions for you, especially healthwise.

Very interesting to hear the diagnosis. As you say, should have been found earlier. Not usually a difficult one to find - wiggle the front wheels vigorously, should be obvious! Hopefully you're good for many thousands of miles of happy motoring now.

All best wishes
Jock

koalar said:

When disaster strikes, it tears the curtain away from the festering problems that we have beneath them,

Barack Obama

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supernova83 said:

the ball joint nearest the rack was barely holding together.

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Thanks for the update

Nice feeling once you get to the bottom of a problem and thank god it was found before it let go

good to hear your okay after the M/C incident

On mine, the rod end adjustment nuts had seized solid. No way could I get any sort of movement. New inner track rods (fitted using a £15 special tool) solved the problem.

Goodness help me if the rack ever needs replacing. It looks like the front subframe would have to be removed for access.