Back in August, I did a 5k mile round trip to Morocco in the Panda, and all went well.

I'm thinking about doing it again this year.

But.....one thing I noticed last time, was that the engine temperature got pretty high at times.

On the motorway at 70mph in 45 degree heat, it would sit around 105-106 degrees, which is fine, gauge was just a smidge over half.....but as soon as any incline came along, it would rise to 110-112 which is when the temperature gauge would go up to around 3/4.

Around 3 months before the trip, it had a new water pump, new radiator, new hoses, new thermostat and 50/50 coolant mix.....so the system itself should be fine.

So, has anyone got any suggestions on how to keep the temperature down?

Its the 1.3MJ engine.

I was thinking of running a pure water mix with an additive (Purple Ice/Water Wetter)? Supposedly transfers heat better?? Temperature never drops below 20, so no need for the antifreeze part.

Make some sort of heatshield between the manifold/cat/turbo and radiator? Reduce the heat from the exhaust affecting the rad so much?

Boost airflow / air contact


Bigger rad an option?

Even an oil cooler ??

varesecrazy said:

Boost airflow / air contact


Bigger rad an option?

Even an oil cooler ??

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I was thinking of fitting an oil cooler....but where abouts would be the best place to plumb it in?

It currently uses that sandwich plate connected to the filter housing.

I was looking at opening up the bumper, but that would mean having to modify the front crash bar that runs between the bumper and rad.

I was also thinking maybe larger fan?

Cinq999 said:

I was thinking of running a pure water mix with an additive (Purple Ice/Water Wetter)? Supposedly transfers heat better?? Temperature never drops below 20, so no need for the antifreeze part.

Click to expand...

My concern with this idea is that you'll reduce the boiling point of the coolant, which you definitely don't want. You also need to be very certain that your chosen solution has sufficient corrosion protection. Aluminium radiators are quickly reduced to scrap by running on plain water.

If the engine is showing signs of overheating, two things which will definitely help are to turn off the A/C and turn the cabin heater up to maximum, with the interior fan on the highest setting. I realise that, in a Moroccan summer, this boils down (pardon the pun) to a choice between overheating the car, or overheating the occupants.

jrkitching said:

My concern with this idea is that you'll reduce the boiling point of the coolant, which you definitely don't want.

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Also with antifreeze the metal parts of the system will soon start rusting up

Cheap cooling is not low costs as it risks losing the engine.

You could fit two fans and/or a bigger radiator. Personally, I would do both. You could have a special double core made which would be a simple fit and give at least 50% more cooling, A cheaper option (maybe) is a small secondary radiator behind each spot light opening in the front bumper.

You could branch into the heater hoses with T joints and electric valve to run a secondary radiator. Removing the thermostat increases water flow but causes over cooling at night when its cold.

Oil accounts for 20% to 30% of overall cooling but when the oil leaks away you risk a ruined engine before you know there's a problem. A water leak leads to overheating which wont cause damage unless you ignore it. That said, diesels reject a lot of heat to the oil so oil coolers make sense

Anti freeze makes the water wetter improving cooling. Use a type for hot climates. Waterless coolant prevents boiling but wont stop overheating.

jrkitching said:

My concern with this idea is that you'll reduce the boiling point of the coolant, which you definitely don't want.

If the engine is showing signs of overheating, two things which will definitely help are to turn off the A/C and turn the cabin heater up to maximum, with the interior fan on the highest setting. I realise that, in a Moroccan summer, this boils down (pardon the pun) to a choice between overheating the car, or overheating the occupants.

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But isn't it the pressure of the cooling system that makes the biggest difference to boiling point?

I know a mate of mine races a saloon car with just water and something like purple ice, as they're not allowed to use coolant on track in case there's a leak.

I know it's got additives to stop corrosion.

No AC fitted, so just leaves turning heat up....which I did.

I might look at trying to open up the front end a bit to let more air flow through rad.

hi Cinq999

on the 1.2 petrol engines the panda stat is 88 degree and the mito engine is 82 degree.

does the same 1.3 MJ engine you have get used in another car where the stat is set at a lower temp but the same casing shape

Tim

DaveMcT said:

You could fit two fans and/or a bigger radiator. Personally I would do both. You could have a special double core made which would be a simple fit and give at least 50% more cooling, A cheaper option (maybe) is a small secondary radiator behind each spot light opening in the front bumper.

You could branch into the heater hoses with T joints and electric valve to run a secondary radiator.

Oil accounts for 20% to 30% of cooling but when the oil leaks away you risk a ruined engine before you know there's a problem. A water leak leads to overheating which wont cause damage unless you ignore it.

Click to expand...

That's a good idea. It's currently got just the one fan fitted, which only covers half the rad. I'm sure I've seen a double fan on another Fiat somewhere....maybe that connected so both fans come on at the same time.

I will look into a double core rad....there's a radiator company not too far away....might get a quote to see how much it'll come to.

The MJ has an internal water to oil heat exchanger so you need to keep the coolant at normal levels Race coolants prevent corrosion and provide a wetting agents for better heat transfer.

The pressure in the system raises the boiling point to around 120C. This prevents kettle bubbles forming on hot surfaces. These locally reduce cooling capacity right where its most needed. Waterless coolants do not boil, but they are expensive and will run away like any other liquid if/when you get a leak.


Cutting corners risks losing the engine so why take the risk?

Diesels have an intercooler that restricts air flow so two fans and a bigger rad will help. Fit a strap on fan to the front avoiding it overlapping the OEM fan.

Also put a bash bar either inside the bumper or outside if it's legal. When I hit a deer in the 100HP the impact pushed the rads back and even the air cleaner case was cracked. There is basically zero protection the the rads if you hit anything (or in my case it hits you).

I think what'll I do first, is wait until winter is over, then take it on a decent run on the motorway and see what sort of temperature it gets to.

I'll then drain the coolant and stick a 80/20 mix in and see if the reduction in coolant makes much difference.

I'll probably then fit an extra fan anyway, even if it's just manually controlled I can switch on when needed.

I'll also look at making some sort of heat shield for the cat. I was under there last week fitting a new exhaust, and even after being sat for an hour it was very hot....I dread to think how hot it gets after 4-5 hours non stop at 70+.

Although at the end of the day, to be honest, if I'd slowed it down to 55-60, it probably wouldn't of got as hot. I'll probably drive more at night as well next time....45 degrees in a Panda with no aircon is not nice!

As important as the airflow is through the radiator.
(if there is room fit two puller fans and a pusher on the front side).
Airflow over the engine and around the sump is also required. if you have the undertray fitted, remove it but replace it with an ally sheet with holes 30-50mm
diameter, you still get debris protection but also more air movement around the lower part of the engine and gearbox.
change the thermostat to one that opens earlier and think of scoops in the bonnet.

The catalyst heat shield is needed at low speeds when there is less airflow. At high speeds there wont be an issue. but get stuck in traffic and your rad fan carrier frame will suffer.

If the bolt hole reinforcements have failed use large diameter repair washers on both sides. If yours look ok, fit washers anyway with hard silicone sealant to fill the gap around the smaller reinforcements.
Two fans attached to the rad core (google it) should fit on rear side, but one pusher on outside with the OEM fan (not overlapping) will do the same job.

Wetting agents will not help this kind of overheating particuarly if the engine is un-modified. Yo need more capacity to transfer heat to the environment (air).
The easiest / cheapest way to do this in rough order are:

1/ Add an extra fan.
2/ Fit a bigger or second coolant radiator.
3/ Remove the sandwich oil to coolant heat exachanger under the oil filter and fit a sandwich oil tap-off and oil to air heat exchanger. An oil temperature indcator would be good too.

4/ Improve airflow (this is last because just adding scops and louvres may actually make things worse)


Personally I'd go for 3/ as it is removing a significant heat load from the coolant system and adding an additional heat transfer pathway. Pick a cooler that fits available space. If it is over cooling it;s easy to blank some of it off.


Robert G8RPI.

does the second speed on the fan kick in ?

They are designed to be sold around the world.

"70mph in 45 degree heat, it would sit around 105-106 degrees"

doesn't sound right.

The sandwich plate oil cooler should not be a huge heat load. It's also easier to fit a second water radiator to the heater hose lines. Use an electric valve with manual override to divert the coolant flow. But with air and oil rads you could put one each side where the fog lamps sit and put an oil cooler on the other side.

Woven stainless wire mesh inside the holes with body filler hardly affects the airflow but stops damaging stones. Ditto the main radiator air intake. Black pop rivets with washers can make it more secure and not look rubbish.

They will do bigger sheets if you ask. Mesh count 2 should be adequate but 4 is a bit finer.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=261722409245&_sacat=0

If you are driving at night you will need long range spot lamps. LEDs are good but avoid wide angle they give too much foreground and a lot of light is wasted upwards.
A pair of these in place of the upper grille would really boost your main beam. Wire a relay to trigger when you switch main beam on.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=352824849538&_sacat=0

These are very powerful but will need a U bracket making up for the light body. The body is billet alloy. They have an annoying triple function but its easily deleted You Tube shows how to do it.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2X-125W-U5-U7-Motorcycle-Motorbike-Headlight-LED-Fog-Spot-Lights-Bulb-Switch/312870513102?hash=item48d88929ce:m:mesWPA44J4PthKz908Xo9hw

I had a pair on the bike. The long range was amazing and being narrow beam only caused dazzle if directed right at oncoming traffic.