Technical Red steering wheel light

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Technical Red steering wheel light

quite warm today. Battery usually shows up more First thing after a frost ?

This isn't a battery issue.

Whilst it's always the first thing to check, and it accounts for a lot of power steering problems, the battery isn't always the culprit. I've seen Panda ePAS problems with a 100% known good fully charged brand new battery.

In this case, there's plenty of power; if there wasn't, the relay would trip out and cut the supply to the motor. This isn't happening here, even when the power demand is increased by putting it into city mode.

What we need to figure out is why putting the steering into city mode can (at least temporarily) put out the light. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen; I'm certain it's not a coincidence.

An intermittent electrical connection somewhere, perhaps an earth, that's restored by putting extra current through the circuit?

One thing's for sure; there's not many garages I'd trust to diagnose this one correctly.
 
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Turning the city steering on and then off didn’t cause the light to go out. I’ve had diagnostics run a couple of years ago where the fault code C1002 came up (I think), but I still chose to change the battery and the problem went away. I have again driven to work this morning with no lights, still took a slightly longer route and may continue to do this throughout the winter to keep battery in top condition. Ideally, I would hope to get this car through until at least next March. How often should I be doing longer journeys to keep battery happy? Everyday or a couple of times a week?
 
The steering column pulls considerable power. A weak/dirty/burnt contact on the low power side (normal models) or high power side (100HP) will restrict power to the system. Check the power connector contacts.

C1002 is the torque sensor. They are not costly to replace so do that and see what happens.
 
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How often should I be doing longer journeys to keep battery happy? Everyday or a couple of times a week?

Ideally you want 20+ minutes of DRIVING .. not sat idling in a queue ;)


Im guessing your panda is now at an age where most things are 'tired'..

Thankfully they dont take much to start the engine.. :)

Your alternator could be putting out less than when new.. several cables could be starting to corrode

It would be all too easy to spend £250 chasing 'ifs and buts'.. the value of an older panda.

If this week goes ok.. no more red light..

Then look at spending a few quid on a battery charger.. even a solar panel might be enough ( cheaper than miles of extra driving..)

Keep us informed :) Charlie
 
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Turning the city steering on and then off didn’t cause the light to go out

Sorry, I should have been clearer in what I said. Selecting city mode won't in itself put the light out; but sometimes selecting city mode means the next time you shut down and restart, it restarts with the light out.

I really don't think this is anything to do with the battery; it's more likely to be a bad electrical connection or a failing torque sensor. The relay feeding power to the EPAS motor cuts out if there is insufficient current coming from the battery, and that isn't happening here.

I've had the exact same fault after driving 100 miles on the motorway with a known good almost new battery. I've also had an EPAS failure that was down to a weak battery, and in that case, all power assistance was immediately lost. These are two distinct failure modes, and it's important not to confuse the two.

I'd say this is more likely to be a bad connection in the sensor/monitoring circuitry than a problem with the main power supply to the motor.

C1002 is the torque sensor. They are not costly to replace so do that and see what happens.

If it were my own car, this would likely be my next step. They are known to be weak, particularly on older Fiats, and replacing it with a more durable upgraded aftermarket version could cross this off the potential problems list for the rest of the life of the car. But it's quite a fiddly job, and IIRC you need MES to recalibrate after fitting; certainly not something to take on if you're not well conversant with the spanners. IIRC the OP will be dependent on the motor trade for a job of this magnitude; most independent garages will probably want to fit an exchange or rebuilt motor assembly complete with torque sensor. There aren't many left that are comfortable with repairs at the component level; basically they're just fitters.

Lorna, if the problem returns, I'd suggest you give these guys a call. They've got heaps of experience in dealing with Fiat power steering issues.
 
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This isn't a battery issue.

Whilst it's always the first thing to check, and it accounts for a lot of power steering problems, the battery isn't always the culprit. I've seen Panda ePAS problems with a 100% known good fully charged brand new battery.

In this case, there's plenty of power; if there wasn't, the relay would trip out and cut the supply to the motor. This isn't happening here, even when the power demand is increased by putting it into city mode.

What we need to figure out is why putting the steering into city mode can (at least temporarily) put out the light. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen; I'm certain it's not a coincidence.

An intermittent electrical connection somewhere, perhaps an earth, that's restored by putting extra current through the circuit?

One thing's for sure; there's not many garages I'd trust to diagnose this one correctly.

correct

On Pandas
I have had to change the battery 3x plus loads of random red lights on the odd cold day,short journeys and so on.
1x slipping alternator belt
1x recalibrate. Didn't like a new battery being fitted
1x reseat of the connector

I have had shaking from the steering wheel, the steering feeling funny, red light but still drives fine and red light with loss of power steering

the most common is red light with loss of power steering. But I don't always change the battery straight away and you do occasionally get just the red light on still with a under par battery

over the last 5 plus years and three old cars.

however in this case fault started when the car wasn't used much during covid and went away after a few long long runs although temporarily


There isn't a test you can do as far as I know to eliminate the battery. You will not see the voltage drop on a voltmeter as it will still be measuring 14.1V and the can still pass a battery test as seen on here many times. It was easy for me with two cars as I would just swap the battery over. This is by far the best method as reading the codes can lead you down a blind ally. I had one battery with dead cells that measured below 12V at rest that didn't throw a steering fault although it wouldn't idle correctly and would cut out at junctions unless you got on the throttle quickly.
 
It may be the steering motor has problems. But its not costly to confirm the system voltage is keeping up with demand.

Measuring the battery alone is often a waste of time. Ive seen a professional electronic battery tester pass a battery with enough sludge in the bottom to short out the cells.

When I suggest a voltmeter I mean something connected to an ignition controlled circuit and see while driving. The system voltage will drop when it's under load (such as starter or steering, etc). Excessive volt drops will trip the steering off or trigger the warning light.

My wife's Panda Dynamic kept cutting out the steering especially when cold. I changed the battery and it seemed OK but returned. I swapped battery for a known good one, no change. A low cost digital voltmeter showed the system volts were low after cold start. A new alternator belt and cleaning wiring connectors was no help. Fitted a new alternator. The volts now stayed up after cold start and the steering has been fine ever since.
 
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Okay, all I can do is keep an eye on it. The car obviously isn’t a spring chicken anymore. And the amount of short journeys she does might just be putting a strain on everything. As I say, I will keep you all informed on here as to when/if it happens again. The car feels safe and I’m not getting a loss of power. When the code came ii the garage did say that it was an intermittent issue, and the chances are that it would periodically go on and off. I think this issue may have been sparked by the fact that my mum parked rhe car with the steering wheel not straight. I’m quite OCD about leaving my car wheel straight and ensuring that lights, wipers and radios are turned off.
 
Okay, all I can do is keep an eye on it.

In your position, that's what I'd do, too. Fingers crossed that it keeps working for a long time.

Just be aware the steering could go unexpectedly heavy; not a problem if you're prepared for it, and the car will still be completely controllable.

If you want to budget for an absolute 'worst case' scenario, a rebuilt steering column fitted by an independent garage shouldn't cost more than £500 all in. Just steer clear (pardon the pun) of the franchised dealers.
 
Is this an intermittent fault though, the code c1002, and could it be that it might not appear again for another few months or so?
 
Is this an intermittent fault though, the code c1002, and could it be that it might not appear again for another few months or so?

Quite a few faults start out as intermittent, then become more frequent, and end up being permanent. Others just remain minor niggles for the rest of the life of the car - I hope yours is one of these.

Read what Western Power Steering has to say about this error code (but remember they've got a product to sell).

Also bear in mind that the car won't pass an MOT if the red light is on (but they won't be looking at any error codes).
 
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Is this an intermittent fault though, the code c1002, and could it be that it might not appear again for another few months or so?

How many miles since the code..and new battery?


Spending £500 on a car you might be looking to swap after 4/5 months seems a waste

Im all for keeping it .. but not when it is probably only going to (economically) last you a couple of years
 
Is this an intermittent fault though, the code c1002, and could it be that it might not appear again for another few months or so?

its happed several times


don't get hung up on the code. Its a guide but several things can cause the same codes to be logged


Its more important to note the exact moment the light comes on


like within the first few minutes the car been started
only on sharp left/right corners
mainly while reversing in to a parking space
only on cold days
mainly after slowing down following a fast run


The more information the better. I have had the torque sensor error code pop up but it hasn't been the problem


As we have learnt more about how these electric power steering systems fail less and less have need major repair which seeing the car are older points to the steering system being fairly reliable

200K miles 06
160K miles 05
77K miles 11

We started thinking that if the steering went heavy it was battery and the light came on without going heavy or a scanner showed the torque sensors require major repairs. This simply isn't the case and too simplistic.

Including Mercedes and Vauxhall i have encountered this problem dozens of times. I have yet to replace the column or torque sensor. That's not to say they don't fail just more rare than we First thought.
 
Just be aware the steering could go unexpectedly heavy; not a problem if you're prepared for it, and the car will still be completely controllable. If you want to budget for an absolute

As we have learnt more about how these electric power steering systems fail less and less have need major repair which seeing the car are older points to the steering system being fairly reliable

I'd agree with this.

Back in the day, main dealers would just put the car on Examiner, see the fault code and throw in a complete new steering column. £1500+ if you were out of warranty.

The real problem might well have just been a poor connection. But removing and replacing the column also remakes the connection, so problem solved and the customer is left poorer, but no wiser.

Now we have MES, this forum, a good variety of both aftermarket sensors and remanufactured columns at sensible prices; it all helps to take the sting out of what would otherwise be a nasty problem.

The only thing which is still much the same is the franchised dealer approach, which relies too heavily on fault codes to identify issues and changes complete assemblies rather than discrete parts; the main difference is the £1500 bill is now nearer to £2000.
 
Realistically, I am planning on changing my car for a hybrid next year (hoping to get a newer panda or even panda cross), so spending hundreds on this current car does seem a bit pointless. The light comes on after a few minutes and nothing about the steering changes. The only other thing that I have noticed is that the light can go off after turning the wheel to reverse or park into a space or something. Like turning the steering wheel can make it go off?
 
Good News Lorna :)

As a side note..

It would be interesting to see how a MILD hybrid would deal with such little daily mileage.
Basically its a normal panda.. but dragging around a bigger battery and alternator

Surely something like a Zoe.. panda sized but all electric.. would only want 2 charges a month
 
Okay, driven to and from work today with no red light. It’ll be a week next Tuesday with no red light warning. So, are we tempted to say this is just a temporary glitch that may occur again in a few months time?
 
Another day with no warning light. I’m guessing this is good news? Will update again on Tuesday when it would have been a full week since the light was last on.
 
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