Register Login
FIAT Auto Specialist Team
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 1 Week Ago   #16
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,071
Thanks: 685
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

If you are thinking of replacing the axle (and you don't have a 100HP) then you would be far better going to a 500 axle. The improvement to the car is amazing. As I said, the first thing my wife and kids said was this is much better. There are some costs as you will need the 500 springs - the 169 springs are MUCH too hard with 500 axle.

If your old axle will clean up without too much work you can sell it and get some money back.

It's possible the later model Panda has the same axle as the 500. Worth a look if one comes up locally.
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by DaveMcT; 1 Week Ago at 12:17.
DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 1 Week Ago   #17
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Thanks: 94
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
I find that if I just remove the hub access is easier. Just needs a big torque wrench and a supply of nuts. Thankfully, not necessary to do much very often.




its the best way to do anything on the rear brakes


the wheel cylinder bolts will not be too tight. All four bolts on a 200K Panda came out easy enough even though they looked worse than yours.


I would consider adding a fitting kit and adjusters. You will not need to go back into the rear brakes for another 50K
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 1 Week Ago   #18
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 6,076
Thanks: 482
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Thanks for this Panda Nut. I've turned up two suppliers in just a couple of minutes

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New...oAAOSw65Jc6AP7

and

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Sub-...oAAOSwb2xc-EFQ

I've been trying to make my mind up whether to completely strip Becky's rear axle out and send it off to be refurbished with a zinc spray finish (was it Dave McT who did this - looks like a good way to do it) or just do a rub down and repaint with the anti-corrosion paint I recently bought (painted the top spring plates with it) Then, when it later gets too corroded, replace it with one of these. At this price I don't think there's any contest. I'm going to do some researching into how likely this supply is likely to remain secure.

Hey, look, here's another one that seems to be in Denmark

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PAND....c100005.m1851

PS - someone - was it you PB? bought one of these and seemed to think it was OK?
You're right, I bought one from the topmost one of these three, only one selling at the time. The other two seem to have straight brackets, so perhaps the guys at AM Car Parts listened and got them straightened. I'd guess they are all coming from the same source in the far east somewhere.
The paint's a bit poor, but otherwise seems to do the job as the original did.
Faithfully replicated, including the left spring pan droop.
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 14 years Driving Instructor & 7 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 6 Days Ago   #19
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 1,389
Thanks: 133
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
My brake pipe flare nuts were all seized (every one on both cars). You need to watch the tube VERY carefully as you turn the flare nut. The aluminium corrodes just enough under the plastic sleeve to grip the nuts. If you are lucky, warming the nut with a gas cooker lighter flame will be enough to soften the plastic and the nut will turn.

Failing that try to spin the wheel cylinder off the flare nut. I have not tried so this might not be possible. It does work on snipped-off brake hoses. Its then easy to warm the bare nut and clean up the scrap coating, etc.

The raggy plastic can be peeled back for about 1". I coated the bare aluminium with some stiff copper paste. The usual CopaSlip (other brands are available ) is a bit too fluid but would do the job. The 1.2 has now done 2 winters like that and all is fine. The MOT tester is also happy.

On the 100HP, I fitted a single long braided hose from the chassis connector to the caliper as each one replaced two rubber hoses and the metal pipe. It may be a bit OTT on the drums with its single rubber hoses. HEL are very good and reasonably priced.
I have a butane torch which I use for plumbing which I presume would do the job just fine? Might even have to be careful not to get things too hot! Thank's so much Dave and to all who've mentioned about these plastic coated aluminium brake lines. I think I'd have been in trouble - might still be - without this knowledge.

I've done that "trick" of spinning the cylinder off the end of the pipe on other vehicles in the past. Just depends on how much "slack" the pipe affords to allow the cylinder to be pulled clear of the back plate once you've got the securing screws out. I've been a bit busy with double glazing and decorating just lately so cars are taking a back seat just now (although Daughter in law is bringing her Jazz round tomorrow with what sounds like a binding N/S/F caliper/pads?) I'm going to have a good look at Becky's rear metal pipes and flex hoses before starting on the cylinders. I suspect the corrosion is such that cutting the hose and spinning the remains off the end of the front to rear pipe will be the way to go. I can then get as violent as I like with the old parts as it'll all be getting junked. Then a couple of new flexes (old ones are not far off ten years old now) and metal pipes to the new cylinders (which I've bought already).

You've given me something to really think about with your mention of the braided lines Dave. I remember reading your original post about your rear axle where you first mentioned this. I'm no stranger to braided brake lines from my days with competition vehicles where their use is common. However, as I have several rolls of brake pipe (Copper and Kunifer) and my own flaring tool I think, in this case, it just makes sense to stick with the standard set up - but thanks for making me think about it.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 6 Days Ago   #20
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Thanks: 94
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

I have just done mine. No problem


heat the nut/back plate. NOT the pipe

Only undo a couple of degrees at a time. Tighten back up and oil. Gently, gently does it. Undo a bit more, tighten back up and so on. Just done two wheel cylinders on a Panda. Also replaced the brake pipes on a Suzuki Splash not had any that didn't undo.
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 6 Days Ago   #21
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,071
Thanks: 685
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

The brake pipe corrosion on mine was not as bad as yours. Mine all looked ok but the flare nuts would not turn. Gentle heat was enough to soften the plastic. Metal underneath was OK. Too much heat would have done more harm than good.

Yours look beyond repair with all that bubbling. So removal is easy.

Braided lines costs are probably a bit more money but it's job done for good. Phone HEL to ask. No need for me to tell you what to do.

With braided on the back only, the brake pedal feel is the same as OEM. The pedal will feel hard only if you replace all hoses on the car. It's like a motorbike with no sponginess at start of travel. I now prefer the feel to standard on our other Panda.

Stopping effort is the same either way.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by DaveMcT; 6 Days Ago at 09:08.
DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 5 Days Ago   #22
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Thanks: 94
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
The aluminium corrodes just enough under the plastic sleeve to grip the nuts.



The raggy plastic can be peeled back for about 1". I coated the bare aluminium with some stiff copper paste. The usual CopaSlip (other brands are available ) is a bit too fluid but would do the job. The 1.2 has now done 2 winters like that and all is fine. The MOT tester is also happy.


sorry if this sounds picky but mine are plastic coated steel


and some copper grease causes a galvanic reaction between the copper and steel which speeds up the corrosion. Not all copper grease are created equal. Normal High temperature grease will do the job of keeping the water and oxygen out.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 5 Days Ago   #23
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,071
Thanks: 685
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by koalar View Post
sorry if this sounds picky but mine are plastic coated steel


and some copper grease causes a galvanic reaction between the copper and steel which speeds up the corrosion. Not all copper grease are created equal. Normal High temperature grease will do the job of keeping the water and oxygen out.
I'm sure mine were aluminium (classic white powder corrosion) but to be fair I have not tried a magnet. The copper paste I use is Action Can CS-90. Its high solids high temperature stuff but more importantly it's thick and smears evenly. Its done a good job on the bare metal brakes pipe ends.

I considered wrapping the bare metal ends with self-amalgamating tape but that would hide any trouble brewing so I kept it simple.
Thanks Pugglt Auld Jock thanked for this post
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 2 Days Ago   #24
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 1,357
Thanks: 52
Trader Rating: 1
The Panda Nut has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Thanks for this Panda Nut. I've turned up two suppliers in just a couple of minutes

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New...oAAOSw65Jc6AP7

and

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Sub-...oAAOSwb2xc-EFQ

I've been trying to make my mind up whether to completely strip Becky's rear axle out and send it off to be refurbished with a zinc spray finish (was it Dave McT who did this - looks like a good way to do it) or just do a rub down and repaint with the anti-corrosion paint I recently bought (painted the top spring plates with it) Then, when it later gets too corroded, replace it with one of these. At this price I don't think there's any contest. I'm going to do some researching into how likely this supply is likely to remain secure.

Hey, look, here's another one that seems to be in Denmark

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PAND....c100005.m1851

PS - someone - was it you PB? bought one of these and seemed to think it was OK?
I am tempted to buy one and put it on the shelf at this price. I think Daffo's axles will be ok with TLC so an still thinking about it. I remember someone saying they are OK apart from a bracket being the wrong angle, this seemed to be to with the original pattern being slightly bent, but was easily overcome.
__________________
Noop now known as Nooplebe (i.e. in the way wherever he goes) 🐼
The Panda Nut is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 2 Days Ago   #25
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Thanks: 94
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Axles are slightly different

05 1.2 brake brackets are vertical
06 1.1 brake brackets are horizontal
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 2 Days Ago   #26
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 1,389
Thanks: 133
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by koalar View Post
sorry if this sounds picky but mine are plastic coated steel
As any of you who've read my other posts will know my days "on the tools" to earn my living were in the late '60's into the mid '80's. To this day I still spend quite a bit of time maintaining and repairing family vehicles and helping out friends. As I have my own flaring tools I'm not against making up pipes for people - actually I really enjoy doing it - but it was only recently, working on "Becky", that I ran into aluminium brake pipes. Steel, copper, cupro nickel, even plastic coated steel, seen them all, but not Aluminium 'till now. Are aluminium brake pipes a uniquely Italian "thing" or are they quite common and I've just never run into them - or, more likely, just not noticed that the old pipes I was throwing away were actually aluminium?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 2 Days Ago   #27
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Thanks: 94
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
As any of you who've read my other posts will know my days "on the tools" to earn my living were in the late '60's into the mid '80's. To this day I still spend quite a bit of time maintaining and repairing family vehicles and helping out friends. As I have my own flaring tools I'm not against making up pipes for people - actually I really enjoy doing it - but it was only recently, working on "Becky", that I ran into aluminium brake pipes. Steel, copper, cupro nickel, even plastic coated steel, seen them all, but not Aluminium 'till now. Are aluminium brake pipes a uniquely Italian "thing" or are they quite common and I've just never run into them - or, more likely, just not noticed that the old pipes I was throwing away were actually aluminium?
magnet stick to mine 1.1 and 06

normal plastic coated steel
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 2 Days Ago   #28
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,071
Thanks: 685
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Maybe I was wrong. I've not stuck a magnet on my brakes pipes. I was simply going on the white powder corrosion.

As said earlier, on the 100HP I fitted a long HEL braided hose to each side which replaced two rubber flexibles and a length of metal pipe. The same could be done on the drum brakes.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 2 Days Ago   #29
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,071
Thanks: 685
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Becky's rear brake cylinders

Humble pie eating mode = ON
SORRY FOLKS THE PIPES ARE MAGNETIC
Mode = OFF

I was going by white bubbling corrosion under the plastic coating. Maybe they zinc plated under the plastic.


As said earlier, on the 100HP I fitted a long HEL braided hose to each side which replaced two rubber flexibles and a length of metal pipe. The same could be done on the drum brakes.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by DaveMcT; 2 Days Ago at 23:14.
DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 2009 multijet rear brake cylinders gerry norris Panda 9 23-02-2017 14:47
(G) Rear brake cylinders jim whitehead Punto (Mk2/2b) 6 04-02-2015 12:40
(T) Where to buy rear wheel brake cylinders Scoobysnacks Punto (Mk2/2b) 16 13-09-2011 19:20
(T) Replacing rear brake cylinders tomfoster Punto (Mk2/2b) 2 02-04-2010 11:17
(G) Rear BRake Cylinders Patch124 Punto (Mk2/2b) 5 28-06-2006 13:08