Would it be still good idea to buy diesel engine cars?

Years ago, diesel was cheaper than petrol, and giving more mpg, and diesel engines were regarded as more reliable than others.

But now diesel is no longer cheap fuel. Not sure if they still give more mpg than petrol and more reliable.

Plus we hear about the government might ban diesel cars due to blaming them as more pollution contributing source, if not hike the tax on the cars.

In this scenario, are diesel cars still good buy? Or should we be cautious on buying them? Would you buy a new diesel car? Any thoughts?

Diesel still gives better mpg
More so the larger and heavier the vehicle
They will also generally last better at high millage due to to the fact the fuel lubricates the engine
They do a have a lot more expensive parts to replace however
Injector's high pressure fuel pumps
Dpf and ege valves

Depends a lot on your type of driving. Lots of long journeys especially carrying weight then a diesel still makes sense


But you have take into account a modern 1L petrol are now giving 78mpg combined and £30 Road tax and is a clear winner for pottering around in.


Panda 1.2L if driven very carefully only gets 60 mpg although you can reach 68mpg with motorway and tail wind.

Today's diesels are powerful and good on fuel, but they have become hugely complicated and highly strung. When things go wrong they are very costly. Relatively small problems upstream of the engine will cause more smoke and overload the particulates filter (DPF). Costs quickly get silly.

If you want lower fuel costs, buy a petrol and fit a liquid phase LPG injection system. Fuel costs halve, power is maintained and emissions tumble. Evaporator systems are not as efficient and more hassle to install so we may as well do the job properly.

https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/4cyl-vialle-lsi-liquid-injection-kit/

Costs are likely to be around £700 including fuel tank plus installation. Dont expect any acceptance from DVLA regards emissions taxes or reduced emission zone charges. We know they are more about tax collection than anything genuinely green.

I have had my Panda for 9 years now and it has done 62k miles.
But I have never got more than 40 mpg, and it is 1.1 eco active petrol engine. I kept wondering, something is not right, but it has never broken down, run rough or stalled. It has never failed to start everyday.

Now it has the EML problem, and suspension and brakes need work done for next mot.


I have seen some LPG converted cars, but most of them had faults on the installed lpg kit, and didn't run properly. They were just running on petrol again with the lpg still installed in the car.

I recall 1990s when diesel was about 70% of petrol, and diesel cars were going for more money. Now less people seem buying diesel cars, and the price of them coming down.

Diesels generally produce less Co2 than petrols, but tend to emit more NOx which is why the latest models have all the complicated emissions kit fitted to them.
Older petrol cars tend to have trouble with NOx too.

There was an interesting article on the BBC website, that compared two cars over the same trip by a company not tied to manufacturers or their businesses.
One and very old petrol and one Euro 5 diesel.
The results are quite surprising.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust


After all the ho ha over testings, a couple of companies have set themselves up independently to test cars for customers rather than manufacturers.
They've not yet worked through every car, but their lists are growing and test highlights can be found here.

https://www.trueinitiative.org/true-rating
https://equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

Both report Euro 5 Panda diesel as either poor or only just meet Euro 3 specs.

Blimey!

Fiat 500X Diesel, 2015, 1.6, 118hp, FWD 2, Manual, Euro 6, Rating H (the worse rating)

H = No comparable Euro standard: roughly equal to 12+ times Euro 6 limit

The LPG gas phase injection systems are complicated and fussy under high or low ambient temperature conditions. The liquid phase type has fewer parts basically - pump, injectors and ECU. There is no evaporator so no waiting for the coolant to get warm enough and charge air is not displaced by the gas so power and economy improve.

The issue will be how it cooperates with the car's ECU but a good system should be fine - if the car is listed of course. Vialli is Italian so at least should be ok with Fiats.

I aim to fit liquid phase gas to my 100HP but have other costs at present so its not a priority.

Diesels have their place on large vehicles that can accommodate all the necessary emission kit but I think they have had their day for cars. Judging by the German car industry emissions scandal, the days of diesels were done quite a few years ago.

I'm hoping that it was a good idea to buy a diesel as I've just replaced my diesel Panda with a new diesel Mito.

Wee Smurf said:

I'm hoping that it was a good idea to buy a diesel as I've just replaced my diesel Panda with a new diesel Mito.

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My older boy went through just this quandary a few months ago when they needed to replace their Diesel Fabia. They went for a diesel again due mostly to the fact the car spends most of it's life going Edinburgh to Livingstone to Edinburgh on the M8 taking his wife to her work and home again.

In the end they bought a Kia Rio under Kia's "assured" scheme. The car is less than 18 months (just) old but under this scheme still qualifies for the full 7 year warranty! Neither he nor his wife are interested in cars so having this warranty suits them just fine. It'll be interesting to see just how comprehensive the warranty actually is if they ever try to claim?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

My older boy went through just this quandary a few months ago when they needed to replace their Diesel Fabia.

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How was the diesel Fabia in reliability?

Theleman said:

How was the diesel Fabia in reliability?

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He had two actually. The first was a Mk1 with the 1.9PD engine. (that was actually the one that suffered the sticking variable vanes in it's turbo which we fixed with oven cleaner!) It took me a wee while to get my head round the pumped injector system but otherwise I really liked it. The only other thing which went wrong unexpectedly was when it developed a miss fire. A phone call to my friends at our Audi indy (AVW Autocentre) suggested I look at the injector loom which runs inside the cam cover so spends it's life soaked in oil. The Lucar type connectors to two of the injectors were loose. The recommended fix is to replace the loom but I carefully squashed the connectors with long nose pliers and it was fine. That engine had a lot of "grunt" which made it a very good car for the daily motorway commute.

The second was a 1.6 CR Fabia Scout estate. The car looked great with it's Scout trim package but the engine didn't feel as "brutal" as the older 1.9 PD. It had a period of several months when it just wouldn't run properly bringing the engine light on from time to time and eventually it posted trouble codes which were a bit confusing but eventually pointed to an EGR problem. The EGR was such a sod of a job to get at I handed it over to AVW to do the job and they confirmed it's not easy to access. That sorted it for a couple of years until it did it again (This surprised me as this car spent most of it's life motorway cruising) When it failed the second time it really crippled the car, dropping it into Limp and making it almost undriveable. It was out in Livingstone when it did it this time so it went to the local garage out there who just happened to be into tuning VAG products. They recommended an EGR delete package (now not legal I think?) which made the car usable again but gave it a small flat spot when accelerating at low revs. Then he got a letter from Skoda telling him to take it in for modifications due to "Dieselgate" but we had read so much about some people not liking the way it changed the driving dynamics of the car that he didn't get this done. Then the DPF literally fell apart! The Audi guys did a temporary fix on it but warned us he would soon need a new one which would cost the wrong side of £1,000. That was when he said enough! and we started looking for a replacement - which turned out to be the KIA.

So, I would have one with the 1.9 PD engine if I could find a good one. It's quite DIY friendly. I did cam belts, general servicing and repairs like track rod ends, brake pads (rear calipers are a little prone to the handbrake seizing up) and other stuff. But the 1.6 CR engine is a different kettle of fish all together wouldn't have one in a gift!

My diesel Bravo is easily capable of 80mpg. it will muller a 1.2 ton caravan and still does 35mpg. Its quiet and has 100k trouble free miles behind it save egr sticking. Regular use of Wynns Diesel Clean has stopped the egr issue and its been fine now for 2 years.

Petrol cars are still less economical but some prefer them.. I think its a personal thing and if you want ultimate speed on a standard car petrol will probably win out.

Petrol Panda cannot get anywhere near economy of the diesel. I am at a loss as to why diesel service costs are so high as there is B all to do! I am about to buy the first ever exhaust part for a diesel in my driving life and at least 1,000,000 miles. That has rusted from the outside in!

I would choose to drive diesel all the time as the CO2 emissions are so much lower and generally cleaner but todays thinking seems to believe otherwise. Its a fact that emissions related to quantity of oil burned and diesel is straight more thermo-dynamically efficient than spark. Even weight for weight as opposed to gallons used the current diesel pariah gate is nonsense.

Yes, I read that the 1.9PD engine is indestructable, and often do a half million miles easy.

But even trusty reliable diesel cars can go bad, and give trouble.

I am confused with current Diesel report that it is more harmful to environment. Years ago, they were supposed to be cleaner, and half the price of petrol.
Of course, diesel is more efficient for mpg too, so more economical, but now higher tax means it is not cheap to run diesel cars anymore.

Some say that it is all hype trying to sell more upcoming electric cars. Some says that diesel cars are having slow death, and will be museum piece in the future.

Theleman said:

Yes, I read that the 1.9PD engine is indestructable, and often do a half million miles easy.

But even trusty reliable diesel cars can go bad, and give trouble.

I am confused with current Diesel report that it is more harmful to environment. Years ago, they were supposed to be cleaner, and half the price of petrol.
Of course, diesel is more efficient for mpg too, so more economical, but now higher tax means it is not cheap to run diesel cars anymore.

Some say that it is all hype trying to sell more upcoming electric cars. Some says that diesel cars are having slow death, and will be museum piece in the future.

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And yet latest reports say the new generation of diesels engines emit very little box
Well under the after limits

They are more efficient and they do produce less CO2. But they produce more NOX and particles.

gr J

Theleman said:

Yes, I read that the 1.9PD engine is indestructable, and often do a half million miles easy.

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Yup, the 1.9 PD does seem to be well thought of. Not to be confused with the 2.0 PD which when it first came on the scene had all sorts of potentially expensive problems. I've never owned the 2.0 litre but have heard a number of tales about them. For instance oil pump drive failure (which didn't stop the engine running so guaranteed comprehensive destruction of multiple components). Early Piezo actuated injectors were a pain compared to the 1.9's solenoid operated ones which seldom gave trouble. I believe the later engines were pretty much sorted out but I think I would just steer clear!

1.9PD is well thought of in the tuner market as well as they are very easy to ramp up the power to 200bhp+ and still be reliable.
Wished I hadn't let my Golf go now lol.

I wish I hadn't got rid of 1970s Merc-Benz 190D.
It ran like clock.

I liked the older 1.9 TDI. The 90 could be chipped to 110 and the 110 to 130 giving better economy AND better power. The best of both worlds is rare indeed.

The 1.9 and 2.4 TDI diesels were a joint venture between Fiat and VW. Common rail injection was Fiat invention but they sold it to Bosch during one of their slump periods.