Technical 2008 Panda 1.3 Multi jet abnormal revving

austin397 · Feb 16, 2019

2008 Fiat Panda 1.3 Multijet 48,000miles

Drives lovely but hesitates at 2750-3000rpm until eventually it will pick up and accelerate, the turbo is whistling away at the above rpm but seems to have no affect. The wastegate is moving and operational. Idle is not abnormal.

Any Ideas? could it be a boost leak / is the wastegate boost controlled on these?

DaveMcT · Feb 16, 2019

An air leak in pipes after turbo could explain the increased turbo noise. But a damaged turbo can be noisy.

austin397 · Feb 16, 2019

It almost feels like the wastegate is not opening correctly until a higher boost pressure is reached. No EML is showing either.

austin397 · Feb 20, 2019

I have just purchased a KKL 409.1 cable and and setup MultiECUScan on my laptop. What graphs would best help people diagnose what is wrong with the vehicle?

A3jeroen · Feb 20, 2019

Are you sure the KKL cable will let you use all features of MES? I always use a ELM327 with different adaptercables.
Look on the official MESsite to see what works with what.

gr J

Goudrons · Feb 20, 2019

These are prone to the wastegate seizing, though this tends to create over boost as the gate seizes closed.

It's hard to get to the wastegate arm, but most find a bar to lever it back and forth to see if it's free.

Noises from the turbo/air intake and low boost tend to point to air leaks.
Rubber hoses and clips on the air intake after the turbo tend to rot.
Check around the pipes/joints to the intercooler as they are usually in the firing line of the weather.
If you spot any oil on the intake pipes, it's usually because they are split and weeping the blowby oil in the air intake, so a good sign there's a hole or split.

Another classic reason modern diesels hesitate is because the EGR valve has failed.
You tend to notice this when you apply the throttle to speed up after a steady cruise, the valve fails to close and chokes the engine with exhaust gas so it coughs and splutters rather than pick up revs/speed smoothly.

Both of the above will usually cause a bit of extra smoke/black soot out the exhaust and it's running rich (well, lacking air)

koalar · Feb 20, 2019

A3jeroen said:
Are you sure the KKL cable will let you use all features of MES? I always use a ELM327 with different adaptercables.
Look on the official MESsite to see what works with what.

gr J

just checked

both types will work fine for engine data

can't help with the original question about which sensors to log.

don't own a diesel at the moment or had to diagnose this type of fault

lambda are normally a good start. Should show if its going lean or rich.

there's a good YouTube channel where a mechanic take a car for a drive and show what to expect and where is failing. I will try and find it again this evening.

Also worth a quick look at the ambient temperature before you start the car. Should be within a degree or so of what Google shows for your location.

austin397 · Feb 20, 2019

Goudrons said:
These are prone to the wastegate seizing, though this tends to create over boost as the gate seizes closed.

It's hard to get to the wastegate arm, but most find a bar to lever it back and forth to see if it's free.

Noises from the turbo/air intake and low boost tend to point to air leaks.
Rubber hoses and clips on the air intake after the turbo tend to rot.
Check around the pipes/joints to the intercooler as they are usually in the firing line of the weather.
If you spot any oil on the intake pipes, it's usually because they are split and weeping the blowby oil in the air intake, so a good sign there's a hole or split.

Another classic reason modern diesels hesitate is because the EGR valve has failed.
You tend to notice this when you apply the throttle to speed up after a steady cruise, the valve fails to close and chokes the engine with exhaust gas so it coughs and splutters rather than pick up revs/speed smoothly.

Both of the above will usually cause a bit of extra smoke/black soot out the exhaust and it's running rich (well, lacking air)

Thanks for the advice, i have checked the wastegate and it moves with a prybar and does not seem to be sticky or seized.

the previous owner had the EGR valve and intake cleaned (was owned by an elderly lady before him) maybe the EGR has failed as i know cleaning them is normally a temporary solution. I will unplug and see if anything changes.

I have done an engine oil cleaner flush. I will also replaced all filters with quality MANN filters including fuel filter. And replace oil with Mobil super. I will also run a diesel cleaner though it just to make sure everything is nice and clean.

I will also check and pipework this weekend when i have some light (bloody winter).

Is there anything else it could be??

When i was running it yesterday while playing around with MES, i noticed on idle it has a very minor hick-up every now and then maybe 1-2 minutes apart the tacho does not move but you can feel it. Maybe just because it is a diesel? or could this be a sign of a faulty MAF???

Thanks for any replies in advance.

koalar · Feb 20, 2019

austin397 said:
Thanks for the advice, i have checked the wastegate and it moves with a prybar and does not seem to be sticky or seized.

the previous owner had the EGR valve and intake cleaned (was owned by an elderly lady before him) maybe the EGR has failed as i know cleaning them is normally a temporary solution. I will unplug and see if anything changes.

I have done an engine oil cleaner flush. I will also replaced all filters with quality MANN filters including fuel filter. And replace oil with Mobil super. I will also run a diesel cleaner though it just to make sure everything is nice and clean.

I will also check and pipework this weekend when i have some light (bloody winter).

Is there anything else it could be??

When i was running it yesterday while playing around with MES, i noticed on idle it has a very minor hick-up every now and then maybe 1-2 minutes apart the tacho does not move but you can feel it. Maybe just because it is a diesel? or could this be a sign of a faulty MAF???

Thanks for any replies in advance.

if its anything like the petrol it does some sort of mid course correction every now and again. You don't notice it unless your actually looking for it.

austin397 · Feb 21, 2019

Just installed new filters and good quality oil. thankfully the stutter at 3000rpm has gone this was down to the fuel filter being in pour condition. But i know need the top fuel line plug as the one on the vehicle had been badly damaged by previous owner (release mechanism broken). Does anyone know where i can find one? (the black connector with the grey clip that connects to the top of the fuel filter housing.

Also the vehicle seems a bit under powered have come from a 2.0jtd but it just seems a bit sluggish is this normal?

DaveMcT · Feb 22, 2019

I had totally forgotten about clogged diesel fuel filters doing this.

I had a workmate who always filled at his local garage (Peugeot 205). The garage had a low volume of fuel sales so the diesel was sometimes a bit dirty. He wanted to help then stay in business. The result was needing to change his fuel filter when he changed the engine oil. If he left it for the next oil change it would clog and stop the car before he got that far.

I suspect he really should have had the fuel tank cleaned out. In those days the tank lift pump ran at full flow circulating fuel through the filter. Muck was constantly being carried through and stopped in the filter.

These days diesel is much cleaner and there is much less recirculation to the tank. Such problems don't arise unless the fuel filter has been ignored for many service intervals.

Will any of these solve your problem?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=fiat+panda+diesel+fule+filter&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=fiat+panda+diesel+fuel+filter+housing&_sacat=0

blod65 · Feb 25, 2019

I have been following this thread because my multijet has been having a random "dead" accelerator where I would slow down for a roundabout or a junction and when I came to speed up again
nothing would happen when I put my foot down, and then suddenly it would work fine.
Anyway changing fuel filters was mentioned so I thought I would change mine, and this is what I found, my one piece filter was now a two piece filter.
The new filter is a Mann filter( sorry didn't think to take a picture before installing ) and it has a plastic cage around around the filter material presumably to stop this happening.
I've only just changed the filter and my Panda has driven fine since but like I said it has been a random problem and it may still be there but I will report back when I've done a few more miles.

austin397 · Feb 27, 2019

That filter does look like it was due a change but i think the one that came out of mine was worse! it was a dark colour throughout. I still have what i believe to be a boost leak, but i will smoke test this and see if i can find some leaks. hopefully your issue does not come back.

austin397 · Mar 2, 2019

Hi all just thought i would jump back in to confirm another dicovery.

I felt like it was still under powered after finding the fuel filter clogged. I got the engine up-to operating temperature then disconnected the MAF. The engine did not die in fact it started to sound "nicer" also under acceleration it feels smooth and the boost come on about 1850-2000rpm instead of 2750-3000rpm. Just wanted to confirm that this indeed indicated a new MAF or at least cleaning it with MAF cleaner is required.

Furthermore after 4 restarts the EML came on but still pulls like a train with the MAF diconnected.

koalar · Mar 5, 2019

austin397 said:
Hi all just thought i would jump back in to confirm another dicovery.

I felt like it was still under powered after finding the fuel filter clogged. I got the engine up-to operating temperature then disconnected the MAF. The engine did not die in fact it started to sound "nicer" also under acceleration it feels smooth and the boost come on about 1850-2000rpm instead of 2750-3000rpm. Just wanted to confirm that this indeed indicated a new MAF or at least cleaning it with MAF cleaner is required.

Furthermore after 4 restarts the EML came on but still pulls like a train with the MAF diconnected.

with the MAP disconnect electronic brain recognizes this and uses some default settings and throws the engine light on.

If its running better on these default settings it points to an error in this area. Doesn't necessarily mean the sensor is faulty but will be around that area.

I changed one and noticed at the breakers that the punto had the same sensor. Not sure about the diesel one. Bosch are good there part number is clearly printed on the top of the sensor. Just need to find one with same numbers to test.

I was charged £2 for mine.

austin397 · Mar 6, 2019

This car is really starting to get on my nerves!!

So i replaced the MAF sensor for a Hella one so a name brand and it still has the stutter, as soon as you unplug it it goes fine.

Furthermore it has developed a knock when pulling away almost sounds like a big end diesel knock and it persists until around 2000rpm. The oil level is perfect and it is running Mobil oil. I am perplexed at what the hell could be wrong.

Just to add insult to injury i found the below cable not connected to anything. looking at the engine bay it was on the left hand side. It comes of the engine harness.

Has anyone got ideas as to what it could be, an injector????

DaveMcT · Mar 6, 2019

Al least it's not a Nissan/Renault

http://knackerednavara.proboards.com/thread/4

koalar · Mar 6, 2019

wipe some soapy water on the pipe from the turbo, rev the engine and check for bubbles

blod65 · Mar 8, 2019

austin397 said:
This car is really starting to get on my nerves!!

I know how you feel!
I've had my Multijet for 10 years, Its a great car when its running right but just lately its having a few throttle problems, no fault codes so it turns into a never ending game of "guess whats wrong with me now". so I think its time to part ways.
No more diesels for me they are just too complicated now!

austin397 · Mar 8, 2019

blod65 said:
I know how you feel!
I've had my Multijet for 10 years, Its a great car when its running right but just lately its having a few throttle problems, no fault codes so it turns into a never ending game of "guess whats wrong with me now". so I think its time to part ways.
No more diesels for me they are just too complicated now!

Yep i have had diesels as my last 3 cars and love them but god are they a pain to fix or costly to find a mechanic that actually knows how to work on them.

I have found that round one of the injectors there is slight moisture so it may need some new injector seals. But i will do a leak test before i go pulling injectors out incase it need some new injectors as well (I really hope not considering it has only done 48,000miles)

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