Quite like the fact that my Panda Eco 1.1 is 4 cylinder 8 valves engine. Simpler design.

Theleman said:

Quite like the fact that my Panda Eco 1.1 is 4 cylinder 8 valves engine. Simpler design.

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Absolutely Theleman. I couldn't agree more. I know that 4 valve combustion chambers with variable valve technology seem to be needed to get power with good economy and least in the way of obnoxious emissions. But it really reminded me how nice, simple and pleasurable it is to work on these older designs when I did the head gasket on "Felicity" our old '92 Panda Parade a few years ago.

We have both 16V and 8V versions. The 100HP is nice but the 8V feels more appropriate for the car.

Since I decided to do more DIY work on the Panda, I am looking for simplicity as the most desirable merit.

I am trying to avoid any kind of complexity like a plague even sacrificing on performance.

Economy is added bonus to simplicity, I guess.

Theleman said:

Since I decided to do more DIY work on the Panda, I am looking for simplicity as the most desirable merit.

I am trying to avoid any kind of complexity like a plague even sacrificing on performance.

Economy is added bonus to simplicity, I guess.

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Just don't bother changing the inner track rod ends and if you have air conditioning, the alternator is a pig of a job. Access is poor to say the least.

The bonnet slam panel is really well thought out. It carries the rads & headlights, holds the bonnet down and can be lifted off the car with rads still in place and connected. But also very vulnerable to damage so it needs to easy to change-out.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Don't know if you've read the post (somewhere elsewhere - still can't find my way around the forum efficiently!) about that Matra

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Hi Jock, found it here. Sorry I completely missed that thread at the time, but certainly enjoyed reading it - I wonder what the odds were of both the MS660/670 and Mazda 787 being mentioned in the same post twice in a month on a FIAT Panda forum?! Proof that these were two of the most glorious sounding engines that live on in the memory (and the ears - tinnitus might be a price worth paying!). Maybe in a parallel universe Matra MS670 owners are discussing the merits of the 169 Panda

rmjbn1 said:

tinnitus might be a price worth paying!). Maybe in a parallel universe Matra MS670 owners are discussing the merits of the 169 Panda

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On balance, maybe? I now have hearing aids for both ears which, together with my false teeth, are a great source of fascination and amusement to my youngest grand daughter! The hearing is enormously improved I can hear the birds and noisy tappets/valve clearances again!

I absolutely love the idea of a group of elderly Matra owners sitting around, in a parallel universe (I read a lot of Sci-Fi) discussing the merits, or would it be deriding the demerits, of the 169 Panda. (Probably merits though - I'm a subscriber to the opinion that the 169 was, marginally? the best iteration of the Panda). Bet not too many of them contracted tinnitus from one though.

Oh, and I forgot to say, regarding the hearing aids - you can always turn them off when it's "convenient" not to hear something!

DaveMcT said:

Just don't bother changing the inner track rod ends and if you have air conditioning, the alternator is a pig of a job. Access is poor to say the least.

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Inner Track Rod? Is it part of axles? Would it be one of the items that need to be done professional garages?

My Panda doesn't have air conditioning, thank God for that. I always felt its something I don't need in this country.

You do need air conditioning in cars in tropical countries such as Texas or Florida in US, or the Mediteranian countries, I suppose.

To be fair I'm glad to have the air con. Cars are heat boxes with greenhouse glass. It's not "that" complicated but Fiat chose to put the air con pump above the alternator making access very bad.

The inner track rod (tie rod in USA) is the ball joint and shaft attached to the steering rack under the corrugated boots.

DaveMcT said:

To be fair I'm glad to have the air con. Cars are heat boxes with greenhouse glass. It's not "that" complicated but Fiat chose to put the air con pump above the alternator making access very bad.

The inner track rod (tie rod in USA) is the ball joint and shaft attached to the steering rack under the corrugated boots.

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Ahhh ... I wouldn't have liked it at all, if Air Con was obstructing the alternator, and making it difficult access.

It was nightmare trying to replace the spark plugs on my Panda due to lack of room and difficult to see the plug holes buried and sunk somewhere on the engine, and cables lying all over them. Took a while to get it done, and I was swearing at times.

I heard about the ball joint. Must get list of works that would be difficult / challenging for DIY.

DaveMcT said:

We have both 16V and 8V versions. The 100HP is nice but the 8V feels more appropriate for the car.

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As a previous 100HP I can appreciate the engine. Tremendous for a 1.4. Characterful, sweet with a rorty edge.

However, in terms of sweetness, I rate the 'old 1.2 and 1.1 even higher.

I had a 2002 Punto 1.2 and the engine was an absolute peach. So well mannered and economical too. I also really liked the kinda lazy feel of the 8v torque delivery meaning it was pretty flexible if you didn't work it hard but very sweet when you did.
The 1.1 could be even sweeter! It certainly is in my mams 2010 Active ECO. It's like a little sewing machine in gentle use and completely smooth at any revs in the range. It does feel a bit weak to me...but I guess that means I'm not working it hard enough!
Great, great engines.

The 8V is let down by lack of power. The 60bhp version is just about enough, the 55bhp (1100) would get annoying for anything other than town use. I think the best compromise would be the 1.2 75bhp used in Punto Mk2/2a. I guess emissions rules killed that one.

I have driven a 2013 Fiat 500 which probably had the 69bhp cam variator engine - and hated it for long journeys. The car was lovely but the high top gear was a serious annoyance and the engine felt no better than a plain 60bhp version. On motorways anything with the slightest up-slope meant dropping the big gap to 4th and revving the nuts off it. Any pretence at fuel efficiency was lost at the first slope or headwind. Perhaps it needed a six speed 'box, but why have the annoyance of shifting down all the time.

The 100HP while certainly more powerful is not as flexible so mid range power does not feel remarkably better than the 60bhp 1.2.

Just a quick question re the Panda / 500.


Are they very different to drive? I didn't think they would be as they are on the same platform?


I ask as i drove a 2010 500 1.2 Lounge at work the other day and to be honest i was very disappointed!
In comparison, i've also very recently driven 2010 and 2005 Pandas (1.1 and 1.2) which felt relatively...responsive and generally pleasant to drive. (and of course my 2007 100HP which understandably is a different prospect)


The 500, for me....was like this (and it was in very good condition and looked after)


Good: Funky interior, small dimensons. Felt like a nice place to be. Easy to drive. Decent gearchange.


BUT!
That 'easy' should not be confused with 'good'.
Totally numb steering.
Springy/mushy throttle and clutch.
ZERO response from engine. Felt totally...flat. Smooth but completely unresponsive.
Unsettled ride and handling.
Very disapppointing!


It just felt like a car that was cute with a good interior.....but no particular care had been taken to make it drive feel like it was engineered to drive 'well'.


Am i being too harsh? I know they changed in 2011/12 with some settings from the Ford Ka?


But this 2010 was, to be....a big let down!


My concern is...does the 2012-on Panda drive like this? :s

Apart from the daft high top gear, I had no complaints about the 500 but it was just a hire car.

I had the Panda 1.2 Duologic for 3 years before scrapping it on its 10th year. Not too many Pandas on the local roads. Parts are not easy to get here but having a specialist workshop helps. Fuel consumption is pretty good as to be expected and it runs well on the expressway. I topped 155km/h once on a trip up north. Its stable, but engine noise was rather loud. The repair cost for the 3 years of ownership was high comparing against my previous Jap rides. My main concern was that the ride was getting more and more

I had the Panda 1.2 Duologic for 3 years before scrapping it on its 10th year. Not too many Pandas on the local roads. Parts are not easy to get here but having a specialist workshop helps. Fuel consumption is pretty good as to be expected and it runs well on the expressway. I topped 155km/h once on a trip up north. Its stable, but engine noise was rather loud. The repair cost for the 3 years of ownership was high comparing against my previous Jap rides. My main concern was that the ride was getting more and more unreliable and since parts were expensive here, it was not a hard decision to scrap it on its 10th year. My current ride replacing the Panda is a boring but reliable Jap ride, Honda. It was a fun ride especially in the city and parking was easy. Thanks guys for the tips and assistance.