when the weather get cold we get loads of cooling issues

heaters only blowing warm

P0115 error

radiator fans coming on fast.


gauge dropping down occationly.


gauge only going up 1/4 way


90% are down to a missing rubber gasket inside the thermostat. Because the thermostat is opening and closing properly and it just leaking past when closed its hardly noticeable during warmer weather



First thing to do is check if this is the problem. From cold start the engine. Put your hand on the hose by battery. Please be careful and keep your fingers away from any moving parts. The fans can come on randomly but there's plenty of space.


if it doesn't stay cold for a few minutes then the thermostat will be at fault.


I done three the same. The last one I unbolted the plate that holds the coil packs and moved them out of the way still connected. Cleaning the old gasket off was much easier.

Also you will see in the photo that one car has had a radiator leak and been filed with water

there should be a rubber gasket here. Its perished and completely gone allowing a small volume of flow to the radiator. Not so noticeable in summer but becomes more of a problem in winter. I didn't notice any MPG difference after changing but the heater was noticeably hotter

Some different brands of thermostat seal in different ways. I don't like the rubber type seats as they can deteriorate.

I try and use the thermostats with metal to metal sealing as these don't have the issues that the ones with rubber seats have.

Going to have to do one on Becky soon (2010 1.2 Panda) can you tell me which brands are metal to metal? I would tend to buy from Shop4parts, do you know what they supply?
Thanks
Jock

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Going to have to do one on Becky soon (2010 1.2 Panda) can you tell me which brands are metal to metal? I would tend to buy from Shop4parts, do you know what they supply?
Thanks
Jock

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My original parts is stamped with the part number 75891350 and stamped made in Italy

same for both the 1.1 and 1.2

I just bought the cheapest. One was First Line can't remember the others. All including the original have had a rubber seal.

The 3rd party castings was not as good as the original. Things that are in the flow are streamlined on the original but square on the pattern parts. Having said that they are still working fine.

There is no need for a watertight seal so metal to metal would be my preference.

Should have explained why the engine light comes on when the rubber seal is missing

The ECU monitors the coolant temperature sensor

With the engine running it expects the coolant never to fall back below 60 degrees Celsius

If it does say coasting down hill it will assume a fault, put on the engine check light and fans. The temperature gauge quite quickly


The engine check light self clears if you do a few good starts and short runs. Not 100% it’s about 5

I suspect the rubber seal deteriorated due to acidic coolant. It would be worth flushing and refreshing the coolant at the same time.

Be carful which thermostat you order there’s two types depending on engine and year

I've had this issue - temp gauge only reaching 1/4 for a while, then zeroed after a motorway run, EML came on, logged DTC P0115.

Top radiator hose was getting warm on the underside very soon after starting the car.

Changed my thermostat, flushed and changed coolant with 10-year OAT today - thanks to @Pugglt Auld Jock whose post I found very helpful: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/what-did-you-do-with-your-panda-today.436409/page-64#post-4581167

I also chose to remove the coil pack mounting plate for access, and discovered where that pesky oil leak was coming from! Replaced the cracked seal in the blanking plate.

I guess there's supposed to be a rubber seal on my old thermostat (on the right) where it is visible on the new one? No sign of one, so presumably completely dissolved with age.

Now the top radiator hose stays cool until the temp gauge reaches 1/2. I should have done this ages ago...

rmjbn1 said:

I've had this issue - temp gauge only reaching 1/4 for a while, then zeroed after a motorway run, EML came on, logged DTC P0115.

Top radiator hose was getting warm on the underside very soon after starting the car.

Changed my thermostat, flushed and changed coolant with 10-year OAT today - thanks to @Pugglt Auld Jock whose post I found very helpful: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/what-did-you-do-with-your-panda-today.436409/page-64#post-4581167

I also chose to remove the coil pack mounting plate for access, and discovered where that pesky oil leak was coming from! Replaced the cracked seal in the blanking plate.
View attachment 417578View attachment 417579
I guess there's supposed to be a rubber seal on my old thermostat (on the right) where it is visible on the new one? No sign of one, so presumably completely dissolved with age.
View attachment 417580View attachment 417581
Now the top radiator hose stays cool until the temp gauge reaches 1/2. I should have done this ages ago...

Click to expand...

When I'd done the cam belt, maybe a year or so previous to doing the thermostat, I'd found an oil leak just like your's coming from that end plate. I'd had it off together with the cam cover for access to the end of the cam where the cam locking tool fits. My O ring was still intact but somewhat flattened and a bit hard. The dealer didn't have one and couldn't give me an estimated delivery time so I just cleaned it all up and degreased it with brake cleaner then applied a light smear of my favourite silicon sealant: https://www.halfords.com/motoring/t...rs/loctite-si-5980-flange-sealant-599720.html which I was using anyway on the corners of the cam cover gasket where they tend to leak if fitted "dry", it's remained oil tight ever since.

I always fill the engine with clean water and run that to fully hot before dumping it out. Then pour in the correct amount of coolant concentrate and top up with water. This ensures it's at the required %age or better.

I have replaced the thermostate today on my 1.1 and would like to add that the bracket holding the coil packs on these can just be removed without worrying about any oil seal. On mine it's just a bolted on bracket. As mentioned on here I have been very careful with the wiring..
I paid £12.40 on Amazon for a Febi Bilstein 10897 thermostate and it came with a packing.

It was rather difficult to bleed the system first instance so I have filled through the heater hose bleed hole using a tiny funnel and sqeezing the top radiator hose at the same time. My temparature gauge sits steady half way now and the interior heats up much faster!

​

Pepandaros said:

It was rather difficult to bleed the system first instance so I have filled through the heater hose bleed hole using a tiny funnel and sqeezing the top radiator hose at the same time.

Click to expand...

I was anticipating having some bleeding issues, and reluctant to touch the bleed screw as I understand they can be fragile.

I added coolant slowly whilst squeezing the top hose, and maybe I got lucky? It all seems fine. I'm going to carry coolant with me in the car until I'm happy it's stabilised.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

My O ring was still intact but somewhat flattened and a bit hard. The dealer didn't have one and couldn't give me an estimated delivery time

Click to expand...

It did cross my mind whether this was supposed to be a specific seal, but looked fairly basic to me so I just cycled off to the hardware store to get a matching rubber O ring - I measured it at 36mm inner diameter.

I figured if I do keep the car long enough to change the thermostat & coolant again, I'll replace the seal again, so it doesn't need to be anything fancy.

I think I'd recommend changing a thermostat by removing the coil mounting plate - as koalar says the wiring and HT leads can stay attached, so very little is disturbed - and replace the seal on the 1.2 as leaks here seem common. Mine wasn't using any oil, just blowing a little oil out over the thermostat housing.

Yes the secret to these cars with the expansion tank on the side of the radiator is to fill them slowly


You can see why if you remove the bleed screw and just fill it quickly

It will come out of the bleed screw like a little 4” fountain. But if you keep filling it will stop eventually stop and a load of air will then comes out and eventually it will just pour out.

Assuming everything is working correctly and you fill very slowly you don’t even have to loosen the bleed screw

The first few miles it will drop a couple of inch but after the first top up it’s fine

It’s surprising how much trouble a very small leak causes. As the system cools it sucks in air. Which then expands as the coolant heats up.

koalar said:

Yes the secret to these cars with the expansion tank on the side of the radiator is to fill them slowly


You can see why if you remove the bleed screw and just fill it quickly

It will come out of the bleed screw like a little 4” fountain. But if you keep filling it will stop eventually stop and a load of air will then comes out and eventually it will just pour out.

Assuming everything is working correctly and you fill very slowly you don’t even have to loosen the bleed screw

The first few miles it will drop a couple of inch but after the first top up it’s fine

It’s surprising how much trouble a very small leak causes. As the system cools it sucks in air. Which then expands as the coolant heats up.

Click to expand...

Your remarks are really helpful. I have one car with very very slight coolant loss. I am watching it like a hawk but suspect its maybe as you describe a tiny leak somewhere. I am going to add some dye and see if I can see anything. I hadnt thought down the lines of your posts so thanks for the valid ideas.

Oh dear...
I disconnected the bottom hose using the quick release connector, pushing in the two tabs top and bottom to waggle it free...
...reconnected to flush engine a couple of times...
...thought I had it fully home as I heard it click...
...got it up to temp with new coolant, no leaks, short (6 miles) drive, checked again, no leaks...
...drove home and fans came on, found coolant trickling out of the bottom hose

Checked bottom hose and the top tab wasn't fully up. Lots of pushing and wiggling, it finally clicked up and stopped leaking.

Got more coolant, it took about 3 litres, so I'd lost most of it (capacity is given as 4.6 litres)

I guess the lesson is to not be as stupid as me, make extra certain this quick release connector is fully seated, with both tabs up - it's a bit fiddly.

I'm hoping I haven't caused any damage as it was a short run, temp gauge never climbed above half

rmjbn1 said:

Oh dear...
I disconnected the bottom hose using the quick release connector, pushing in the two tabs top and bottom to waggle it free...
...reconnected to flush engine a couple of times...
...thought I had it fully home as I heard it click...
...got it up to temp with new coolant, no leaks, short (6 miles) drive, checked again, no leaks...
...drove home and fans came on, found coolant trickling out of the bottom hose

Checked bottom hose and the top tab wasn't fully up. Lots of pushing and wiggling, it finally clicked up and stopped leaking.

Got more coolant, it took about 3 litres, so I'd lost most of it (capacity is given as 4.6 litres)

I guess the lesson is to not be as stupid as me, make extra certain this quick release connector is fully seated, with both tabs up - it's a bit fiddly.

I'm hoping I haven't caused any damage as it was a short run, temp gauge never climbed above half

Click to expand...

It should be fine fine especially as it winter

Having the temperature sensor at the top of the engine always seems silly to me as it reads wrong with low coolant


If it’s serious overheated you would have smelt it. The have a hot oil burning smell

Fingers crossed that all is still well.

This is why I recommend leaving the bottom hose connection well alone and vacuuming or syphoning out the coolant.

On models with the expansion tank at the side of the radiator, you'll get just as much coolant out as you would if you disconnected the quick release.

With all these types of quick release plastic fittings I prefer to leave well alone and just remove the hose from the stub in the time honoured way. Often means investing in a jubilee clip to replace the original fit hose clip but then you can slacken it whenever you need in the future.

I think it depends on a few factors

My 05 and 06 were fine and come apart as they should

I would put a G clamp across the two metal lugs and pull and twist. Unfortunately there’s not much movement because of the locating lug. Sometimes a bit of gentle leverage from the bottom of the bumper with a bar helps

Can be done quickly and repeatedly

Make sure the rubber o ring is still in its groove. A bit of silicon grease on the o ring and it’s tapper.

It should slide on with a nice satisfying click you can double check with a visual inspection as there a ridge with a notch it should be tight up against

My current 2010 is far to risky to undo it’s stuck on there firmer than I care to try and remove

It surprising just how much is still left in the system even if you disconnect the bottom hose

Water jacks are still full for example.

koalar said:

surprising just how much is still left in the system even if you disconnect the bottom hose

Click to expand...

Indeed.

I reckon it's as much as between 1-2 litres, probably including a fair bit of the heater circuit. Opening the bleeds helps - they're actually more use when draining than refilling.

I did once disconnect a bottom hose with a tray underneath after syphoning; the extra that came out was about a teaspoonful.

There's another couple of advantages to syphoning; you can easily measure what comes out, so you'll know how much needs to go in, and if replacing the 'stat and the coolant doesn't otherwise need changing, you can just put it back.

And don't try to get it all in at once; fill to the max. let the engine cool, then refill to the max. Repeat until the level stabilises; it doesn't usually take more than 2-3 cycles.