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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #31
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

My 2008 BMW R1200 is frankly the best bike Ive owned. But it has some VERY annoying design features that either cost money (to BMW and owners) or are just poor design.

These are not trivial - like weak rear wheel bearing that needs a gearbox rebuild to replace. Clutch that could be a standard car style (low cost) but for some reason was engineered back to front causing engineering issues and costs megabux.

Complex fuel pump management that's totally reliant on a badly designed, unreliable (and costly of course) fuel level sensor.

Nothing is perfect of course, but these are largely faults that never needed to happen and result from special designs for the sake of redesign.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #32
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

To be honest the Toyota forum I am on are pretty open about other cars being good/better than theirs. The rx8 forum members are quite up tight about their cars though, rx8s are ok, but definitely not great!

You mentioned seeing more bmws on the side of the road than fiats. That is a badly informed opinion not based on any facts. You do have to consider that you probably see 10 times as many bmws than you do fiats on the road. It could also be that the fiats didn't start in the first place?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #33
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by dac69er View Post
. It could also be that the fiats didn't start in the first place?
Ouch!
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #34
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by dac69er View Post
!

You mentioned seeing more bmws on the side of the road than fiats. That is a badly informed opinion not based on any facts. Y
How is that an opinion it is a FACT in my eyes as that is exactly what I see.

I actually see as many if not more Fiats on the road as BMW's, amazing how you notice them once you own one so you comment is complete rubbish
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #35
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Wow should I buy a 100HP with 100K on the clock was the question.

Nobody can answer. Too many variables.

How it driven. How it's been looked after. To if it's spent most of its life on the coast.

Paint work in good condition is a good start though.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #36
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by 09 johno View Post
How is that an opinion it is a FACT in my eyes as that is exactly what I see.

I actually see as many if not more Fiats on the road as BMW's, amazing how you notice them once you own one so you comment is complete rubbish
Whereas me seeing something is not a valid basis for it to be a fact according to a few of the members on this thread?

Both myself and girlfriend own a fiat btw.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #37
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

The amount of break downs has to be divided by the number of cars times miles coved or something like that

I have never see a Berwick (automobile) by the side of the road so they must be the most reliable


There my be something about size though. Nearly always saloon size that break down. Possibly due to the owners not willing to get dirty. Or ran out of fuel. Who knows. Who cares.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #38
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by dac69er View Post
....To be honest the Toyota forum I am on are pretty open about other cars being good/better than theirs. The rx8 forum members are quite up tight about their cars though, rx8s are ok, but definitely not great!
See, more of your posts confusing your own opinions with facts.

I owned an RX-8 for 3 years and 30,000 miles and they definitely aren't ok. They drive nicely (sometimes) but my experience is they're less reliable than Fiats and have rust problems which are frankly embarrassing - an issue shared with similar vintage MX5s and Mazda 6s. At 6 years old mine had rust on the sills, arches and boot lid and needed respraying. The alloys were rotten and needed re-coating (something which Mazda used to do under warranty many times over for owners), parts are expensive and the Mazda dealer service is - in my experience - worse than Fiat.
Lets not get started on engine reliability, either.

Nobody is saying Fiats are perfect, but you're generally just talking sh!te, Mr. Troll.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #39
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by HP View Post
See, more of your posts confusing your own opinions with facts.

I owned an RX-8 for 3 years and 30,000 miles and they definitely aren't ok. They drive nicely (sometimes) but my experience is they're less reliable than Fiats and have rust problems which are frankly embarrassing - an issue shared with similar vintage MX5s and Mazda 6s. At 6 years old mine had rust on the sills, arches and boot lid and needed respraying. The alloys were rotten and needed re-coating (something which Mazda used to do under warranty many times over for owners), parts are expensive and the Mazda dealer service is - in my experience - worse than Fiat.
Lets not get started on engine reliability, either.

Nobody is saying Fiats are perfect, but you're generally just talking sh!te, Mr. Troll.

i fail to understand why my experiences are not valid, whereas yours are?


i simply said RX8s are ok, i never specified anything. i have had 0 problems with mine. the rust on my 2004 is no worse than the rust on my girlfriends 2008 100hp.
the wheels are a bit flaky, but not that bad.



as for dealer experiences, i had to take mine for a recall and they were absolutely brilliant. restored my faith in car garages.


dont believe everything you read on the internet, they are not always facts. peoples expereriences can be far more worthwhile than some yourtube video based on reddit posts.


i am not trolling, i am just trying to get across an unbiased opinion based on my experiences.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #40
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

You may have some valid experiences but your approach is rubbing people up the wrong way. Sweeping generalisations like:


"it is well known that most things italian are a bit on the shoddy side."


are hardly likely to gain you friends on an Italian car forum, surely you must understand this.


As we are expected to take on board your opinions, you should also be able to do the same in return.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #41
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by HP View Post
You may have some valid experiences but your approach is rubbing people up the wrong way. Sweeping generalisations like:


"it is well known that most things italian are a bit on the shoddy side."


are hardly likely to gain you friends on an Italian car forum, surely you must understand this.


As we are expected to take on board your opinions, you should also be able to do the same in return.

it clearly has rubbed some people up the wrong way, but telling people something they dont want to hear generally does.


italian things are generally poorly made. i also have an aprilia motorbike and i have just finished replacing an italian made high level probe at work https://camlogic.it/en/products/detail/pfg05_46. when compared to other brands, its just not quite as good quality. i have been in engineering for almost 20 years so have lots of first hand experience of this.



i am happy to take on peoples opinions, what bothers me is when i am told my opinions are not fact whereas other peoples opinions are fine to be treated as fact.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #42
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by dac69er View Post
italian things are generally poorly made.
I know, 800 year old case in point here:-

Click image for larger version

Name:	the-leaning-tower-of-pisa_800.gif
Views:	4
Size:	283.0 KB
ID:	191749

Looking at that, I can't think why anybody loves the charm of all things Italian
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #43
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by dac69er View Post
it clearly has rubbed some people up the wrong way, but telling people something they dont want to hear generally does.


italian things are generally poorly made. i also have an aprilia motorbike and i have just finished replacing an italian made high level probe at work https://camlogic.it/en/products/detail/pfg05_46. when compared to other brands, its just not quite as good quality. i have been in engineering for almost 20 years so have lots of first hand experience of this.



i am happy to take on peoples opinions, what bothers me is when i am told my opinions are not fact whereas other peoples opinions are fine to be treated as fact.
I quite understand the point that you're making observations, which can be seen as valid evidence to back up your opinions. However, coming out with the statement "italian things are generally poorly made." on the basis of your narrow experience - narrow compared with the overall extent of the engineering field - is bound to raise objections. Like the products of most established countries, "Italian things" vary from totally crap to totally wonderful. The contributors to this forum are here because, taking the relationship between cost and quality into account, plus subjective issues, they are generally satisfied with their Fiats - the balance between crap and wonderful is positive.

A statement such as - my experience of Italian engineering has been negative - would carry much more weight, and, backed up by examples, would attract an interested audience. I recently bought an automatic Tissot watch (has to be mechanical) - the strap is a nightmare, the movable loop shifts away from the loose end of the strap tens of times a day and has to be replaced; because it's mechanical and not driven by a vibrating crystal it loses a few seconds every day - all Swiss products are lousy. Make sense?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #44
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
I quite understand the point that you're making observations, which can be seen as valid evidence to back up your opinions. However, coming out with the statement "italian things are generally poorly made." on the basis of your narrow experience - narrow compared with the overall extent of the engineering field - is bound to raise objections. Like the products of most established countries, "Italian things" vary from totally crap to totally wonderful. The contributors to this forum are here because, taking the relationship between cost and quality into account, plus subjective issues, they are generally satisfied with their Fiats - the balance between crap and wonderful is positive.

A statement such as - my experience of Italian engineering has been negative - would carry much more weight, and, backed up by examples, would attract an interested audience. I recently bought an automatic Tissot watch (has to be mechanical) - the strap is a nightmare, the movable loop shifts away from the loose end of the strap tens of times a day and has to be replaced; because it's mechanical and not driven by a vibrating crystal it loses a few seconds every day - all Swiss products are lousy. Make sense?

whilst i admit that my experience is quite narrow in the grand sceme of things, we are talking about cars. i used my experience with mostly electrical and mechanical engineering which relates more closely to cars than the italians skills at making pasta dishes for example.


i can walk around where i work and take loads of photos as evidence, but i dont see that i need to justify myself to that degree for my opinions based on experience to stand up?


i understand what you are saying, i am not using a single example to say all Italian things are crap. it is a general concensus across the motor trade and the engineering trade that italian made things are a little lacking. yes, they are cheaper, and when you put that into context, they are good value for money.



italians have great ideas, italian cars on the most part have a very defined style about them which again is almost universally agreed as being great, and in some cases works of art.
if i was to make a comment to say italians really know how to design cars because my uncle fred said so, this would be acceptable? its a fiat forum, but there has to be some objectiviety to equal everything out.


just to add, i love driving my girlfriends 100hp and i think my cinq is great. i admittedly have good and bad days when it comes to my Aprilia though as it is very temperamental!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #45
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Re: Fiat Panda 100hp

Any car, any brand with more than 100K on the clock will have issues. Cars used for short journeys will have more wear & tear than ones that mostly cruised the motorways.


Panda's by the type of car they are are unlikely to have a high proportion of motorway miles.


But where they do win is low parts costs, easy maintenance and a design that's developed and evolved over at least 25 years.


They wont set the world alight but they do the job and absorb user abuse very well.
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