Technical Timing belt

[newbie fiat]

Hi,

Looking to replace my timing belt, however there seems to be 2 different sizes for my engine on every site i go on, euro car parts, gsf car parts, car parts online to name a few, they are the same length and number of teeth but are either 15 or 22 mm wide (this is when searching by VRM by the way) even the gates belt finder shows as both sizes for my car, is there a way to confirm or am i going to have to remove the cover and measure manually?

i have a 2005 1.1 fire engine 187A1000 (square oil filler cap)

i know the auxillary belt is 15mm i only get the one option for that going to change that at the same time.

i was also thinking water pump but read they can be more hassle than they are worth, mine is currently not leaking and was changed 3 years ago with fresh coolant, i then changed the coolant myself 1 year ago as i did a full service, oil, oil filter, air filter, coolant, spark plugs so i cant see there being a problem any time soon (hopefully), looking to keep the car another 2 - 3 years hence the belt change.

 

[portland_bill]

With the square filler, it should be the earlier belt, which I think is the narrower one.
The top belt cover should come off reasonably easily, then just measure the belt.

Alternatively, the engine number change point seems to be 2533528, which is when I think it changed to round filler, as well as more significant changes. Engine number is difficult to find on the engine, but should be on your V5 registration document. Or PM me your VIN and I'll check to see what ePER (Fiat parts catalogue) says.

 

[newbie fiat]

okay, Eper has confused me even more, searching by VIN does indeed bring back my car as 2Q NUOVA PANDA (2003-2009) if you click on 101 crank case and cylinder head and then click on 10115 misc belts and pulleys there are 2 belts the drive belt 46736814 so thats fine 1 drive belt with the correct code.
whats confusing me is there is also another belt shown as option 3 on the diagram belt number 55232449 if you then go back and click on 10106 camshaft drive option number 9 is also a belt 55193659. my car doesnt have 3 belts does it? or is it as easy as 55193659 is the timing belt and 46736814 and 55232449 are both drive belts depending on the type of engine you have?

 

[newbie fiat]

in addition to that under 101 carnk case and cylinder head and then 10106 there is also belt 46750865...

 

[portland_bill]

With ePER in front of you, put your VIN into the box near the top right, and click the little arrow to the right of the box. Then you get a box like the one below.
That will give you engine number and build date, as highlighted.

The parts listings for the engine suggest that the engine number change point, 2533528 is 2004, so being a 2005 car, yours should be the later model. I'm assuming you've found the cambelt number via this route.

10115
46736814 is the alternator belt for cars without aircon.

55232449 is the alternator belt for cars with aircon, as it also drives the aircon compressor, so is longer.

10106 - Cambelt
55193659 is the cambelt for engines after the change point above. As 2004 is a bit vague, actual engine number is more reliable. It is possible for a car to have stood at a dealer for some time before sale, so date of registration is sometimes a red herring.

If you have used the VIN to get to the number above, it shows you have the later belt.

Early belt is 15mm, later one is 22mm wide.

 

[portland_bill]

in addition to that under 101 carnk case and cylinder head and then 10106 there is also belt 46750865...

That one is the cambelt for the earlier engine. So, as above, your actual engine number is critical.

 

[newbie fiat]

Engine: 2839216 Vehicle: 01236773 Manuf. date: 11/7/2005

 

[portland_bill]

Engine: 2839216 Vehicle: 01236773 Manuf. date: 11/7/2005

You'll have the 22mm belt then. (Fiat 55193659, replaced with Fiat 55203784)

 

[newbie fiat]

Fiat 55193659, replaced with Fiat 55203784 so i assume i should be looking for 55203784 as that is an upgraded / has replaced the previous version of the belt but otherwise will be the same size?

Thanks for the info and help btw!

 

[portland_bill]

This: https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4...32a200663a7d3d48acbcbbf93532a6085ac139&000332

Also. Get yourself the Haynes manual. Read the section about cambelt replacement, specifically the part for your engine number. It looks very complicated, but is easier than it seems, although access is tight. Like mine, there will probably not be any timing marks, necessitating the holding tools to ensure correct alignment.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This: https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4...32a200663a7d3d48acbcbbf93532a6085ac139&000332

Also. Get yourself the Haynes manual. Read the section about cambelt replacement, specifically the part for your engine number. It looks very complicated, but is easier than it seems, although access is tight. Like mine, there will probably not be any timing marks, necessitating the holding tools to ensure correct alignment.

Difficult to think of anything to add to P. Bill's advice - is there anything this man does not know the definitive answer too? Genuflection performed! The top pulley cover is not too difficult to shift and then you could just measure the belt. Do you live near a motor trade factor? You'll probably find their prices will be not far off what you'll get on the 'net and mine will often price match, or nearly match, if you tell them what the on line price is and where you saw it at that price. The price they initially quote you as a private/enthusiast customer may not actually be the best they can do (ie what a frequent garage customer will get) so there is sometimes " wiggle room" if their monthly sales targets are down perhaps?. They are supplying these parts all day long and even if they give you the wrong one you've only got to go back and swop it! I prefer to buy locally for this reason as long as there's no more than a small price difference. If you have problems it's so much nicer and easier to sort things out face to face.
Hope you enjoy doing your timming belt. Do take great care setting up the timing though! Our old '92 Panda Parade (Felicity) had a non interference engine. I actually tried, very gently, turning her over when I did a belt on her (she had the narrow belt with the course tooth pitch). So if she had ever broken a belt all I'd have had to do would be fit a new one. I'm sure that if the belt broke or slipped a few teeth on our "new" 2010 Panda (Becky) there'd be tears! Same goes for my son's 2012 1.4 8 valve Punto.
Kind regards
Jock

 

[Dervdrain]

Guys - as there are some timing belt gurus on this topic can I tag on a question please - I am always nervous of timing belts and garages I do not personally know - the 100 HP I just bought was sold with new belt/pump/tensioner fitted at my request.

I took some pics best I could (if you click on them they are large) - is this brand new (well, 300 miles odd)?

 

[portland_bill]

Guys - as there are some timing belt gurus on this topic can I tag on a question please - I am always nervous of timing belts and garages I do not personally know - the 100 HP I just bought was sold with new belt/pump/tensioner fitted at my request.

I took some pics best I could (if you click on them they are large) - is this brand new (well, 300 miles odd)?

The tensioner bears on the back of the belt, so will rub against the markings. These wear off or become feint quite quickly, so that one looks quite new.

 

[Dervdrain]

Thanks Bill - I have never changed a belt but this looks as new as one would I'd imagine - very clean and sharp edges etc. I could not get a decent clear pic of the tensioner and pump but any way to check these visually??

 

[portland_bill]

Thanks Bill - I have never changed a belt but this looks as new as one would I'd imagine - very clean and sharp edges etc. I could not get a decent clear pic of the tensioner and pump but any way to check these visually??

They should look clean and shiny too. Belt failure is catastrophic and expensive on that engine. If the seller agreed to change it, they'll have done so. Any failure before the next change interval could bit them if shown that they skimped, as you are entitled to assume they did the job properly. So they will have.

 

[DaveMcT]

If the parts systems offer a choice of two cam belt kits, then buy both and later return the one that's not suitable. You will pay postage for the return but better that than buying the wrong part and having to re-order.

Check with the supplier before buying - they should waive any restocking charge if the understand what you are doing.

 

[Old Bo]

If the parts systems offer a choice of two cam belt kits, then buy both and later return the one that's not suitable. You will pay postage for the return but better that than buying the wrong part and having to re-order.

Check with the supplier before buying - they should waive any restocking charge if the understand what you are doing.

DaveMcT, that is the best advice so far in this thread!