Hi all,

Long time reader, first post as nearly everything else i've needed to know has been asked and answered before! This time though I've searched extensively, tested a whole load of things, but still not succeeded...

My 2011 Panda 1.2 has developed a slight rattle, seemingly from the rear and linked to the suspension. Its heard most clearly at speeds of under 30mph on potholed roads with short/sharp jumps in the surface and appears to be coming from the rear of the car. The rattle sounds independent, whether rear right or rear left - this has drawn my attention to things in pairs at the rear.

So far i've ruled out the following:

- rear seat locking mechanism
- spare wheel and toolkit
- boot struts
- headrests
- boot slam rubber spacers
- light clusters
- parcel shelf
- bumpstops
- seat belts (inc upper 3rd centre belt)
- brake shoes
- hoses/cables/hangers

The rear shock absorbers were replaced around 2 months ago and had no negative effects for at least 1 month. Then the rattle developed. Therefore im suspecting these, but cannot be certain as the sound is more like a plastic clatter/rattle than metal (unless very small movement)

I used the slightly more expensive Bilstein <link> items from CarParts4Less <link>, both of which confirm the fitament for the 169 1.2 panda. I noticed that both upper and lower bushes have a slightly larger bore size than needed to accommodate the bolt used to tighten them. There's only around 1-2mm difference, but it is enough to allow movement (see videos below). Presumably though they need to be circa 1mm wider to accommodate the screw thread (broader than the main shaft), but even when fully inserted there is still room to move the bolt around.

Video 1 <link> (top bush)
(bolt can only move slightly)

Video 2 <link> (bottom bush)
(more movement of bolt)

Top bush (circa 11mm inner diam)
<link>

Bottom bush (circa 13mm inner diam)
<link>

Is this tolerance normal? Anyone else fitted these shocks (Bilstein 19-142265)?

Might tought is that this <link> is happening (obviously illustrated with loosened bolt). But could that happen with fully torqued bottom bolt?

Otherwise im short of ideas. I guess the solid rubber bush might not dampen as much as the OEM ones (gaps in rubber bush), hence i might be getting less absorbtion and causing something else to rattle... But what!?

Rear axle bush?
rear door locks?

Any ideas gratefully received. Thanks!

Any chance an admin can allo me to post links/images please?

There should be no slack in the shock absorber mounts, none at all. The bolt should fit quite snugly into the bush, not too tight to turn in with your fingers, but certainly not slack.
As the suspension moves, there is a lot of force through the shock absorbers, so any slack in their mountings will give noise, and create wear to the mounting bolts and possibly the mounting brackets on the car.

I'd recommend removing the shocks and checking the fit of the mounting bolts. If the bolts are unworn, and the bushes too large, ask for a replacement or refund, as they are not suitable.

Totally agree with Portland Bill, on this subject.

robste said:

Any chance an admin can allo me to post links/images please?

Click to expand...

You need 5 posts before you can add imaging.

Thanks chaps, i'll pursue Bilstein

(and hopefully now i can post the links/images) Thanks

Hi all,

Long time reader, first post as nearly everything else i've needed to know has been asked and answered before! This time though I've searched extensively, tested a whole load of things, but still not succeeded...

My 2011 Panda 1.2 has developed a slight rattle, seemingly from the rear and linked to the suspension. Its heard most clearly at speeds of under 30mph on potholed roads with short/sharp jumps in the surface and appears to be coming from the rear of the car. The rattle sounds independent, whether rear right or rear left - this has drawn my attention to things in pairs at the rear.

So far i've ruled out the following:

- rear seat locking mechanism
- spare wheel and toolkit
- boot struts
- headrests
- boot slam rubber spacers
- light clusters
- parcel shelf
- bumpstops
- seat belts (inc upper 3rd centre belt)
- brake shoes
- hoses/cables/hangers

The rear shock absorbers were replaced around 2 months ago and had no negative effects for at least 1 month. Then the rattle developed. Therefore im suspecting these, but cannot be certain as the sound is more like a plastic clatter/rattle than metal (unless very small movement)

I used the slightly more expensive Bilstein items from CarParts4Less <link>, both of which confirm the fitament for the 169 1.2 panda. I noticed that both upper and lower bushes have a slightly larger bore size than needed to accommodate the bolt used to tighten them. There's only around 1-2mm difference, but it is enough to allow movement (see videos below). Presumably though they need to be circa 1mm wider to accommodate the screw thread (broader than the main shaft), but even when fully inserted there is still room to move the bolt around.

Video 1 (top bush)
(bolt can only move slightly)

Video 2 <link> (bottom bush)
(more movement of bolt)

Top bush (circa 11mm inner diam)


Bottom bush (circa 13mm inner diam)


Is this tolerance normal? Anyone else fitted these shocks (Bilstein 19-142265)?

Might tought is that this is happening (obviously illustrated with loosened bolt). But could that happen with fully torqued bottom bolt?

Otherwise im short of ideas. I guess the solid rubber bush might not dampen as much as the OEM ones (gaps in rubber bush), hence i might be getting less absorbtion and causing something else to rattle... But what!?

Rear axle bush?
rear door locks?

Any ideas gratefully received. Thanks!

Is there a part number on it.

Sounds like the wrong part?

From ePER (Fiat workshop manual) top bolt is M10, lower bolt is M12. The holes in the damper should be only just big enough for the bolt to fit. As we have a bout three inches of snow here, I'm not about to remove one of mine to check.
When the bolts are tightened, they only squeeze the mounting tube. If it is a slack fit on the bolt, you are expecting the friction of the tight bolt to overcome the suspension forces, with nearly a tonne of car hitting bumps at 70mph. A big ask.
I have a pair of Sachs dampers waiting in the garage, part number 311421. The top sleeve is nearly 10.4mm, the bottom one measures 11.98mm.

It appears that the sleeves in the Bilsteins are too big. Continuing with these is potentially dangerous, as well as damaging to the mounting points on the car. They need to be replaced, and I'd recommend new bolts too. Not just any bolt, they are probably high grade, 10.9, so you'll probably need to order them from a dealer. If they have 10 or 10.9 on the heads, do not compromise with standard 8.8. Fiat spent more money here for a very good reason.
Top bolt should be tightened to 80Nm, lower bolt to 70Nm. (Figures according to ePER and same as in Haynes.)

Yes, thanks for the advice. The top mount feels about right on the Bilsteins and interestingly is a slightly smaller bore even that the OEM items i removed - see photo below of measurement against the original Fiat top mount metal sleeve (removed from the perished rubber mount):


just slightly larger than the new Bilstein diameter (from my basic measurements).

However, its the lower that has more play (as indicated on the previous video). That's where your measurements of the Sachs dampers seem more appropriate (circa 12mm instead of 13mm).

Bilstein part number shown here:


I'll approach Bilstein and CarParts4Less and report back...

Part Numbers look correct to me

I be worth checking the bolts.

Not heard of any problems with the Panda but there is a common problem with the 500 Abarth and the wrong bolts. This is where a set of callipers comes in handy

Thanks Koalar, i think im going to re-order bolts from Fiat anyway to be sure these are correct at least. Though i have contacted Bilstein and CP4Less now too...

By way of a progress update:

• I have new (Fiat OEM) upper (0046772138 - £4e) and lower (0051856964 - £6e) rear shock absorber bolts. These are virtually identical to the current bolts on the car, including their 8.8/10.9 ratings

The only slight variance i see is that one of the new lower bolts has a longer thread (than the other new one and my original). Original, new and new shown below:



Both new items are the same part number.

Nevertheless, these being virtually identical to the original/current bolts means they've made not difference to the rattle...

Next i'll pursue different shocks and a warranty case with CarParts4Less/Bilstein.

Lower bolt video, showing play, new and original bolts

I fitted Koni's on the back of my 100HP, following the instructions posted on this forum.
It involved fitting bushes to the top mounts because the bolts are of a smaller diameter.
Bought some steel tubing from Wicks for a few quid & made my own my own bushings (12mm OD & 10mm ID).

Thanks IanV, i had seen this and attempted a test sleeve to assess viability. Sadly, by my estimations the sleeve would need to be <1mm thick (lower bolt) and even thinner for the upper bolt. May still keep this as a fall-back idea though, if i cant solve another way... Cheers

Don't p*** about, get the right shocks.