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Old 18-06-2017   #1
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Petrol Injector question

Hello,
I have a second generation 61 reg Panda 1.2 petrol. I'm having what appears to be one cylinder not firing for a while especially after a hot restart. Car usually goes well when driving but can go to only three when pulling up a hill etc. I've changed the spark plugs which made no difference. Yesterday I took the injectors out and cleaned them with brake cleaner and compressed air. Possibly a slight improvement but still not right. Before I invest in a new set of injectors, (!) I'd like to be sure that that's what the problem is. Will you let me have your thoughts on the problem please.
Many thanks for any replies.
Neil
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Old 18-06-2017   #2
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Strongly recommend multiecuscan diagnostic software.
Free to download and a suitable cable to connect to your car very cheap.

You can download it , launch it , select your fiat model , click simulate and have look at what it can do.

Read and clear fault codes and loads more.
Lots of people on this forum use it.

I would say it's a good next step to try on your car. There may be a fault code that hasn't caused the check engine light to come on.

Good luck.
Jack
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Last edited by jackwhoo; 18-06-2017 at 16:09.
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Old 18-06-2017   #3
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Quote Originally Posted by jackwhoo View Post
Strongly recommend multiecuscan diagnostic software.
Free to download and a suitable cable to connect to your car very cheap.

You can download it , launch it , select your fiat model , click simulate and have look at what it can do.

Read and clear fault codes and loads more.
Lots of people on this forum use it.

I would say it's a good next step to try on your car. There may be a fault code that hasn't caused the check engine light to come on.

Good luck.
Jack
Thanks but I don't think the 120 price tag would be worth it for me. I could take it to a garage and get them to diagnose it with their gizmo I guess.

Still hoping to hear if the symptoms are typical of a failing injector.
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Old 18-06-2017   #4
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Re: Petrol Injector question

It's free unless you want to use extra features free free free
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Old 18-06-2017   #5
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Quote Originally Posted by Neil Ives View Post
Thanks but I don't think the 120 price tag would be worth it for me. I could take it to a garage and get them to diagnose it with their gizmo I guess.

Still hoping to hear if the symptoms are typical of a failing injector.
It's free unless you want to pay and unlock some of the additional features
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Old 18-06-2017   #6
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Re: Petrol Injector question

The lead I use was around 6

The problem with your car could be so many things it's not economical to change parts hoping to find the fault.
Apart from the spark plugs which you have already changed.
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Old 18-06-2017   #7
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Re: Petrol Injector question

As said above, MES is the best way forward. Not sure where you get 120 from, I believe it is €50 for a licence for a fully working version. However, the free version will do lots of diagnosis, but not clear faults. So with the free download and a set of cables, you are away. The full version can also be used plugged in as a monitor while running. That may show up the fault while it is happening.

A common problem on Punto Mk2 is a misfire from coil failure, or connections to the coils needing cleaning or tightening. The connector to the ECU sometimes gets a loose pin.
If you can determine which cylinder is misfiring, swap the coils and see if the problem moves. Plug leads also need changing occasionally, as they will start to break down.

Injectors are very unlikely. Strange you have fixed on these, which must cost more than 120 to replace, so spend some money on MES instead.

Check connections of ECU and coils.
Swap coils if misfiring cylinder is known.
Carry out a compression test.
Consider new plug leads.
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Old 18-06-2017   #8
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
As said above, MES is the best way forward. Not sure where you get 120 from, I believe it is 50 for a licence for a fully working version. However, the free version will do lots of diagnosis, but not clear faults. So with the free download and a set of cables, you are away. The full version can also be used plugged in as a monitor while running. That may show up the fault while it is happening.

A common problem on Punto Mk2 is a misfire from coil failure, or connections to the coils needing cleaning or tightening. The connector to the ECU sometimes gets a loose pin.
If you can determine which cylinder is misfiring, swap the coils and see if the problem moves. Plug leads also need changing occasionally, as they will start to break down.

Injectors are very unlikely. Strange you have fixed on these, which must cost more than 120 to replace, so spend some money on MES instead.

Check connections of ECU and coils.
Swap coils if misfiring cylinder is known.
Carry out a compression test.
Consider new plug leads.
Thanks Portland Bill; more info is good. As an ex mechanic, (Ford Anglia and Morris Oxford days) my first thought was spark plug faulty so I changed them. Still misfiring; could it be injectors? Petrol cars didn't have injectors when I were a lad!
The thing is the car still goes as well as ever when it's ok.

Thanks jackwhoo: Where did you get the lead?
Where did you get the free version of the software?
On the GenDan website they want 120 for the kit.
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Old 18-06-2017   #9
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Re: Petrol Injector question

OK, I've found a Multiecuscan site with the software free.
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Old 18-06-2017   #10
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Google multiecuscan
Select multiecuscan.net
Download free version , it is legitimate.
I cannot remember where I bought lead , think Amazon.
I went for the vagcom lead , there are options which are explained on the MES site.
If any other member can suggest a good lead retailer please do so.
The free version I have does clear Fault codes.

Don't fixate on an injector , problem could be many things.
If MES does flag which cylinder missing , you can then swap a component with another cylinder until the misfire moves to try and identify what has failed.
It's not a magical fix though sometimes more investigation is required.

Have deliberately chosen not to list what the problem could be because it really could be almost anything.

Portlandbill has already posted what I would suggest as a starting point.
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Last edited by jackwhoo; 18-06-2017 at 19:37.
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Old 18-06-2017   #11
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Re: Petrol Injector question

worthwhile check is the HT leads and coils because symptoms are classic weak spark failing under load.
Electronic ignition systems are a lot higher voltage than contact breaker systems, Do Not touch with engine running if you have or have had heart problems.
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Old 18-06-2017   #12
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Quote Originally Posted by Neil Ives View Post
Thanks Portland Bill; more info is good. As an ex mechanic, (Ford Anglia and Morris Oxford days) my first thought was spark plug faulty so I changed them. Still misfiring; could it be injectors? Petrol cars didn't have injectors when I were a lad!
The thing is the car still goes as well as ever when it's ok.

Thanks jackwhoo: Where did you get the lead?
Where did you get the free version of the software?
On the GenDan website they want 120 for the kit.
Hi,
This lead set
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162524569889
will do all modern Fiats for 27. You can get much cheaper interfaces but they tend to have a design fault (terminating resistor) that stops connection to some modules. I've bought the item linked above and it works OK.
Registration of MES www.multiecuscan.net is only 50 Euros. Please don't use a "cracked" copy. If people do this the author (who is a member of Fiat Forum) will have no reason to provide updates or support and we will all suffer. Even if you only intend to do basic servicing you will need MES or similar. Registration covers updates for a year, but you will only have to pay again if you get a much newer car.

Robert G8RPI.
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Old 19-06-2017   #13
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
Hi,
This lead set
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162524569889
will do all modern Fiats for 27. You can get much cheaper interfaces but they tend to have a design fault (terminating resistor) that stops connection to some modules. I've bought the item linked above and it works OK.
Registration of MES www.multiecuscan.net is only 50 Euros. Please don't use a "cracked" copy. If people do this the author (who is a member of Fiat Forum) will have no reason to provide updates or support and we will all suffer. Even if you only intend to do basic servicing you will need MES or similar. Registration covers updates for a year, but you will only have to pay again if you get a much newer car.

Robert G8RPI.
Ok folks, I've ordered the leads shown in g8rpi's post. Should be here later in the week. I've downloaded the free version of the software. I'll have to set my desktop PC out on the bike box in front of the car as I have no garage! I just hope this shows up the problem.
I'm pleased to read that the fault is unlikely to be injectors. At the last service the mechanic changed one of the injectors because he said it was leaking petrol. When I cleaned them last week I noticed that the new one has only one nozzle, the others have six; is that likely to be significant?
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Old 19-06-2017   #14
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Quote Originally Posted by Neil Ives View Post
Ok folks, I've ordered the leads shown in g8rpi's post. Should be here later in the week. I've downloaded the free version of the software. I'll have to set my desktop PC out on the bike box in front of the car as I have no garage! I just hope this shows up the problem.
I'm pleased to read that the fault is unlikely to be injectors. At the last service the mechanic changed one of the injectors because he said it was leaking petrol. When I cleaned them last week I noticed that the new one has only one nozzle, the others have six; is that likely to be significant?

The injector difference sounds very suspicious. Did you note the part numbers? Was the fault there before the last service? If not I'd be talking to the garage who changed the injector.


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Old 19-06-2017   #15
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Re: Petrol Injector question

Well done spotting different injector.
Suspicious for sure.
If its easy for you have a look at the injectors again sometimes they have ID numbers on them.
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