I joined this forum because of my interest in a Panda and hoped that someone could help me with a technical problem I am very disappointed with the response I have had so far. See my post "Panda confusing electrics" Is there anyone out there who has a wiring diagram for a Panda 2004. What is, where is the short circuit coupling? I now I have a OBDMATE but that will not communicate with body-computer control unit. Help! what do I do Next?
Technical What did I do wrong?
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Technical What did I do wrong?
I think your original post may be in the wrong forum (Panda 2012+) which could explain the limited responses.
As I understand it your Panda does not start, and has no electrics apart from Hazard lights and some others.
I have a few questions...
What model/engine Panda?
Do you have sidelights or headlights?
Definitely no dash lights?
Do you have radio or 12v socket feed when ignition switch is on?
I don't have many suggestions yet, the only time I have seen something similar was a total failure of the Body Control Unit (BCU), caused by physical damage. It wasn't my car, but I vaguely remember some functions working but most not.
Thinking along these lines, try disconnecting the battery for an hour, then reconnecting. If no difference try another battery if possible.
Get some proper contact cleaner if you don't already have any, and (with battery disconnected) unplug and clean the contacts for the ECU and BCU. Re-plug once dry, reconnect battery and try again.
Post the results and hopefully someone will have a better idea of what is going on.
MultiECUScan and an ODB cable would probably be able to tell you if the ECU has lost communication with the BCU. Maybe there is a FF Member locally who can assist.
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Hi,
Will the OBDMATE connect to the engine control unit? If so it is probably OK. Unfortunatly the simple generic readers will not connect properly to additional modules like the BCU. There is a good program called Multiecuscan thet is Fiat specific and a lot more useful.
Exactly what model, year and engine is your car? We can then give a bit more advice.
Are you getting any warning lights on the dash?
I know you have checked the earths, but try connecting a jump lead between the battery negative and the engine block. Where are you located?
Robert G8RPI.
Will the OBDMATE connect to the engine control unit? If so it is probably OK. Unfortunatly the simple generic readers will not connect properly to additional modules like the BCU. There is a good program called Multiecuscan thet is Fiat specific and a lot more useful.
Exactly what model, year and engine is your car? We can then give a bit more advice.
Are you getting any warning lights on the dash?
I know you have checked the earths, but try connecting a jump lead between the battery negative and the engine block. Where are you located?
Robert G8RPI.
Panda Active 1.1cc petrol, I have sidelights and warning lights etc but these are supplied in the MAR position. Definitely no dash lights.. Radio when off when lost electrics. Haven't tried fag lighter yet. Tried contact cleaner trick. Fairly sure about earths I have 12.21vs from battery red lead to engine camcover. Brand new Obdmate OM123 but will not communicate with BCU. Fairly sure ignition switch Ok But in my desperation I am thinking of shorting it out. Still don't know what the short circuit coupling is or where it is. Not sure what the button under the passenger seat was supposed to do but pressed it several times. Don't know if keys are coded anyone know? Will try the disconnection of the battery tomorrow. But can't believe it is that simple.
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So it's been sat of the drive for months, occasionally started up and you have 12.21 volts at the battery.
I've hazard a guess there's not enough in the battery to start it up.
Even though it's a 12 volt system, batteries usually charge at around 14.5 volts.
Also, volts are only half of the equation, you need a lot of amps to start an engine.
Modern cars don't tend to attempt to activate the starter motor if the battery isn't in good nic, so they don't tend to give you that slow whur, whur, whur crank of car's years ago.
You normally just get a lot of relays clicking and perhaps the clock needles jumping about.
Charge up or swap the battery out with a known good one.
If the battery is really pancaked flat, they don't often take a jump from another car.
The button under the seat is the fuel pump cut out reset button, I think.
In the case of a bump or accident, the system detects this and cuts the power to the fuel pump.
This button resets it.
I've hazard a guess there's not enough in the battery to start it up.
Even though it's a 12 volt system, batteries usually charge at around 14.5 volts.
Also, volts are only half of the equation, you need a lot of amps to start an engine.
Modern cars don't tend to attempt to activate the starter motor if the battery isn't in good nic, so they don't tend to give you that slow whur, whur, whur crank of car's years ago.
You normally just get a lot of relays clicking and perhaps the clock needles jumping about.
Charge up or swap the battery out with a known good one.
If the battery is really pancaked flat, they don't often take a jump from another car.
The button under the seat is the fuel pump cut out reset button, I think.
In the case of a bump or accident, the system detects this and cuts the power to the fuel pump.
This button resets it.
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Which of your threads do you wish replies to be placed in?
Put the headlights on even though they don't turn on. Then measure the voltage.
I'll reply on this one if you don't mind. Thanks Goudrons but even a battery with very low voltage should bring up dash lights. I have disconnected the battery and done a bit of shopping and reconnected but no dice. I live in Morecambe incidentally and I am no novice on cars/motorcycles, diesel engines and even on steam engines/turbines etc but computer stuff I am not so hot. This problem has been a headache for the moment. So here is my thinking, it could this elusive short circuit coupling, It could be the ignition switch or key code, it could be the CBU or engine control system, but I suspect it is something simple that I haven't latched on to. I am hampered by a Hayes Manuel wiring diagram which is not the one for this particular model, a workshop manual I can read and is next to useless, and the handbook that does not show the fuse pattern that fitted on this car. Oh! and very time at the moment.
Have you downloaded eLEARN from this site which should give you a bit more help in trying to problem solve this. Plus Fiats really don't like low battery states and usually throw up all sorts of errors. Even if you think it should be ok it's worth giving the battery a full charge before proceeding further, at worst it's just a day while it charges, at best it does cure some strange faults that show up from time to time.
https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=485
The immobiliser shows a dash light when ignition is switched on. It should then go out as the code is accepted.
As I understand it, yours is not doing this. So I think the BCU is not trying to read the code.
Did you make any changes to the car between last successful start and first failure? Even something which should be irrelevant, like hoovering it out or checking the oil?
I'm also hopeful that it's something simple, like a dislodged connector, but I'm struggling to see a common denominator apart from the BCU at the moment.
As I understand it, yours is not doing this. So I think the BCU is not trying to read the code.
Did you make any changes to the car between last successful start and first failure? Even something which should be irrelevant, like hoovering it out or checking the oil?
I'm also hopeful that it's something simple, like a dislodged connector, but I'm struggling to see a common denominator apart from the BCU at the moment.
Have you tested the battery voltage with the ignition and head lights on. As per post above.
There is quite a load when you first switch the ignition on. Fuel pump and two computers kick in.
Surprise If anyone knows what happens as when the battery gets old the power steering starts to fail first.
As an example when the battery is very low on a Corse B the dash doesn't light and the hazards come on. The only way to stop the hazards is to disconnect the battery.
Short Circuit coupling........ otherwise know as a fuse!
Have you checked all the fuses including the larger ignition fuses under the bonnet and in the interior fuse box.
If you have access I would still put another battery on it just to rule that out or take your battery off and put it on a long charge.
Once you've established some basics then I'd make sure that there is power to the fuses and see if the ignition is powering up the systems properly, any low voltages or absence of voltage could point to a knackered ignition switch.
There are other possibilities but start methodically and work through the basics
Have you checked all the fuses including the larger ignition fuses under the bonnet and in the interior fuse box.
If you have access I would still put another battery on it just to rule that out or take your battery off and put it on a long charge.
Once you've established some basics then I'd make sure that there is power to the fuses and see if the ignition is powering up the systems properly, any low voltages or absence of voltage could point to a knackered ignition switch.
There are other possibilities but start methodically and work through the basics
Thanks for your help lads I will try and answer your questions as I come to them. I gave an hour of my precious time today on the problem. Fitted a good fully charge battery. No go. Just the same. Seewulf I got a CD via the internet can't remember exactly where from. My computer security would'nt let me open it. Asked my friend to download it to my computer and we looked at it but no wiring diagram that was relevant. My security system won't let me access it. Didn't find it much use anyway. Irc, No lights on dash at all flashing or otherwise only clock. No fiddling at all, one day started, next day didn't. Koalar, Battery voltage with ignition and headlights on. Nothing. AndyRkett Short circuit coupling known as fuse, is not true, conventional electrics drawings show the ultimate safety device and when the fuses are blown as a short circuit coupling or circuit breaker. The Hayes Manual shows such a device and my car is wired as the starting/charging system in it. The only thing I can believe in at the present. More later.
Your "Short Circuit Coupling" could be a srash switch isolator. Thei is like a fuse but is electrically operated (some use a small explosive charge) normally by the srash inertia switch. These are normally mounted on the battery. If you are getting power to the ignition switch it's probably not gone.
I suggest you pull the body computer out and have a good look at it including connectors and any plug-in relays or fuses.
Robert G8RPI.
I suggest you pull the body computer out and have a good look at it including connectors and any plug-in relays or fuses.
Robert G8RPI.
So what did I do today? As I say I fitted a good battery and retried what I have done before. First tried the OBDmate again, still will not communicate This is because there is no power on the socket I'm fairly sure. There is power on the red lead to the in car fuse box. Check ignition switch several times. Power on the red lead going into it OK. I get a flick (but no power) on the orange lead which changes to light /blue lead which supplies fuse F16 which of course may not be the same in my car. Nothing at all on the brown lead which is to the starter motor but no juice. Fuse 16 ??? runs from fuse in light/blue and red to supply short circuit coupling which in this case I assume to be the under seat switch. Power assuming it is working runs from the this to the engine management control unit in orange/white. So I think my problem is in the ignition switch (likely) the short circuit coupling although it did click when I first tried it or the EMCU. That is where I will try first. Find wire light/blue and red test that. Find wire orange/white and if that is not it I've got to get power to the body control unit. This is of course that my car is wired as this diagram. I'll keep you posted.
I am lost. A couple of post above you have replace the battery but have no battery voltage ?
Had another go at my panda today. I checked everything all over again fuses earths etc no different. I am in fix it or f--- it mood now. I did notice that when I checked the red wire voltage on the ignition switch it only registered 6.7 volts but I thought this would at least give a glimmer of a glow. No go. Rigged a wire from the in car fuses (red wire supply) to the red wire on the ignition switch. All ignition lights on, fired up first time. Spent quite a considerable time trying to trace the red wire from the live 70amp fuse to the ignition switch. The wire from the ignition switch splits into two, one goes to the in car fuses (makes sense) and the other through the foreward bulkhead to the engine compartment main fuse. Try as I may I can see if there is a connector before the foreward bulkhead. It's almost impossible if you are my size. I suspect my problem is in that wire and that connector. I'll keep you posted.
I wrote a fairly long reply to my last thread but I seemed to have not posted it. After checking my former tries to cure my problem I found I only had 6.7 volts on the ignition switch red lead, you would have thought this would have shown a glimmer but no. After a few hours tracing my problem with no joy, I thought I would fix it or f--- it and hot wired a supply from the in car fuse box to the red lead on the ignition switch and all the lights lit up on the dash and it started poke. I obviously have a bad connection somewhere. I tried the OBBmeter and it was communicating but I have no idea how to use it. I have never used one. So I am now looking for a bad connection with no wiring diagram, a owner's manual that's not the same as what is fitted in the car and the main fuse that should supply the ignition switch that changes colour somewhere the line. Wise me luck.
Over the past few days I have not been a happy bunny. I have tried very hard to solve my wiring problem. I have retraced my steps over and over again
to not avail. I found that I only have 6,7 volts on the red lead going to the ignition switch so that in desperation I hot wired and 12 volt supply from the in car fuse box. All dashboard lit up and the car started first poke. I then tried the OBDmeter and it did communicate. But I have no idea what it is telling me be as I have never use one be fore. Almost certainly I have a bad electrical connection somewhere but where. Here is my first problem. The charging/starting wiring diagram in my Hayes manual is not like the car. The owner manual fuses etc are not as my car. The cover over the engine compartment diagram of fuses seems roughly right but it is for a diesel car. My CD of the workshop manual I can't get into but there is no wiring diagram on it anyway. I supply from the main fuse to the charging/starting is not a red wire as you would expect so it must change somewhere behind the in car fuse box or OBDMeter plug in. I desperately need a wiring diagram.
to not avail. I found that I only have 6,7 volts on the red lead going to the ignition switch so that in desperation I hot wired and 12 volt supply from the in car fuse box. All dashboard lit up and the car started first poke. I then tried the OBDmeter and it did communicate. But I have no idea what it is telling me be as I have never use one be fore. Almost certainly I have a bad electrical connection somewhere but where. Here is my first problem. The charging/starting wiring diagram in my Hayes manual is not like the car. The owner manual fuses etc are not as my car. The cover over the engine compartment diagram of fuses seems roughly right but it is for a diesel car. My CD of the workshop manual I can't get into but there is no wiring diagram on it anyway. I supply from the main fuse to the charging/starting is not a red wire as you would expect so it must change somewhere behind the in car fuse box or OBDMeter plug in. I desperately need a wiring diagram.
Today more sweating and swearing. Disconnected and cleaned every connector to the in car fuse box and now I have no current on the ignition switch red lead at all, So I must have done something. Incidentally there is no red lead on any of the connectors to the in car fuse box. I am now forced to strip out the fuse box so I can see behind it but not today I am knackered. Perhaps I should have learned my lesson years ago when a young lad asked if I could fix Gilera motorcycle. He had seen me riding all sorts of bikes, Jap crap, British iron, a CZ with a chair and even a Cossack with a right/hand side chair (some ride that). I did it going in the end but the electrics on it was awful. The Italians switch to Jap electric in the 70s. I also recall a lad whose pride and joy was a newly acquired Laverda that he asked me to tweek. It ran like a bad of spanners (they all do). Only an eccentric Italian could design a three cylinder engine with two up and one down pistons.
