So guys, I've noticed my gears aren't quite right. Whether due to age/wear or mis-used over time I don't know.

I also don't know if it's okay to continue to use them over the next year, or to add it to my essential list of repairs I'm saving up for, so I'm going to describe this the best I can.

The car NEVER slips 'out' of gear, and when I do eventually get the stick to slot into the desired gear, they function fine..

First Gear / Start Off
Getting into first can be a struggle, I put the clutch in, gently push it left and up for one. Now. It goes left, and up, but it doesn't go in naturally. I find myself 'wriggling' it left and right whilst pushing forward and it finally 'finds' the gear slot. I then need some force to push it in. Once in, first gear works fine.

Additionally, when the car is fully loaded or under strain from multiple fully grown adults, pulling off, especially on hills causes a grind noise. I've mentioned this a few times, not sure if it's a gear problem, structural problem or what yet but mentioning it in case it's related.

Second Gear
It's also the same story with 2nd. Especially going down from third in city driving and down from one when starting. The gear stick feels loose, like it's so prone to 'missing' the slot the gear stick should slot into when 2nd is engaged. It's fiddly to force it in, and it does, just like first, require a bit of force to get it into gear. Once in, second functions fine. This is the real power / eager gear on the 1.2 petrol! I love it too!

Third Gear
Third is fine, but getting it in probably isn't as precise as it should be. Requires a little bit of force, but not as much as 1 and 2. Third gear works fine when engaged.

Fourth and Fifth
Absolutely No problems, easy enough to engage.

REVERSE
Reverse is a problem too. When I start the car and engage reverse, I pull up the syringe mechanism firmly and fully up, and proceed to move the gear right and toward the rear. As the gear engages, I hear a loud 'CRUNCHHHH' which quickly slows and then when reverse is engaged it works fine. But sometimes, it feels like it's slipping. E.g. The car WILL reverse, but I know as I step on the gas it's getting half the power, then I discover it's not quite fully in. So I have to disengage and re-engage MORE firmly which also feels like it's not normal. The car reverses fine when reverse is engaged correctly. But there is hassle getting there. I've reversed it the whole way up my street and nothing unusual except that whine cars do in reverse that sounds like a motor.



Really hoping this is some kind of linkage or gear selector problem, as I'd imagine big transmission issues are expensive and a reason to 'move on' to another car. <- really don't want to move on. I want this Panda until the day it looks as out of place as the 1990 Ford Orion on my street alongside my shiny new one! haha

Previous owner was my sister who before the Panda drove a 2.5L Mitsubishi Shogun ... Strong feeling it was her forcefulness that hurt my Panda's gear :-/ At first I thought I was getting used to it, but now I'm sure it's not right. I don't think Fiat checked this in the service either, wish I had have asked them but!


Thanks guys!

Sounds to me like the linkage has moved across a bit. It can be adjusted back a bit again. Mine was a bit like that for a while a couple of years ago.

Wee Smurf said:

Sounds to me like the linkage has moved across a bit. It can be adjusted back a bit again. Mine was a bit like that for a while a couple of years ago.

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Exactly what I wanted to hear. Hopefully this is something that is

a) not too difficult
b) not too time consuming
c) not expensive in the slightest

Last one might be pushing it haha

It seems to be an easy enough thing, but hard enough to get to. The bit that'll need adjusted is down on the passenger side of the engine bay at the bottom behind everything.

Wee Smurf said:

It seems to be an easy enough thing, but hard enough to get to. The bit that'll need adjusted is down on the passenger side of the engine bay at the bottom behind everything.

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If I could get to it, I want to try and do it. So it's two wires essentially? Am I tightening them or moving them or is there a good way of putting it? :O

It's not wires. It's a rod / bar to convert left hand drive to right hand drive essentially. It runs from the passenger side footwell part of the engine bay to connect to where the pedals are in right hand drive cars. With age this can move or maybe get bent a bit. It's just a bit awkward to get to it to adjust it. I've the Multijet as opposed to the 1.2 so I don't know how awkward yours would be to reach in comparison with mine, but in general space under the bonnet is at a premium in small cars.

Wee Smurf said:

It's not wires. It's a rod / bar to convert left hand drive to right hand drive essentially. It runs from the passenger side footwell part of the engine bay to connect to where the pedals are in right hand drive cars. With age this can move or maybe get bent a bit. It's just a bit awkward to get to it to adjust it. I've the Multijet as opposed to the 1.2 so I don't know how awkward yours would be to reach in comparison with mine, but in general space under the bonnet is at a premium in small cars.

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Hey, today I spotted another problem..

When the car was off (and parked) I had it parked in 1st, as it was on a hill. I gently put my arm on the gear selector and it slipped out easily of gear (Without the clutch being pressed)...

I had to try investigate, so with the car off I soon learned every single gear, even reverse can be selected without the clutch .. Shouldn't the clutch 'stop' this? :bang:


When the car was on, I tried the same thing, but it wouldn't go in gear as I'd imagine without the clutch pressed it'd clash.

Gears still worked fine and smoothly (same old hard to get into place) on the road and as I drove on.

Could this be a sign of a serious problem or is it normal?

And also, would it cost much / be a big job to get my initial problem you said Wee Smurf about the linkage needing aligned/sorted if I was to ask Fiat or... god forbid.. a Mechanic haha

I'd make an educated guess and say the clutch is dragging, ie, not disengaging the engine from the gearbox properly. Does it feel like the clutch pedal is going right down to the floor and is it coming up to full height when you take your foot off ? Right hand drive Panda's have a hydraulic clutch mechanism which might be faulty. When you do get in gear , how far from the floor does the clutch pedal have to be before the clutch bites, near the floor or very near the top ?
Sorry, lots of questions which might give a clue to the problem.

martroy said:

I'd make an educated guess and say the clutch is dragging, ie, not disengaging the engine from the gearbox properly. Does it feel like the clutch pedal is going right down to the floor and is it coming up to full height when you take your foot off ? Right hand drive Panda's have a hydraulic clutch mechanism which might be faulty. When you do get in gear , how far from the floor does the clutch pedal have to be before the clutch bites, near the floor or very near the top ?

Sorry, lots of questions which might give a clue to the problem.

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It does come up to full height, once it's been engaged and I'm, e.g. In fifth picking up speed with my foot solely on the accelerator.

It does Go to the floor, I often make the effort to fully push it to the floor for every gear change, engine start and shut down to avoid that nasty crunch noise from doing a bad gear change.

Lightly off of the floor and it'll bite. I do have to put the accelerator quite down (what would have been a significant 'over Rev' in the Corsa) to ensure the Panda smoothly moves otherwise I get this horrible judder / shaking. My solution to stop this is take it out of gear, use more accelerator force and reengage the gear getting a Spritely move off. - very near the floor

It seems like the clutch isn't disengaging properly, check that the clutch master cylinder is full of fluid and check that the clutch slave cylinder, down on the clutch housing is being moved fully, you will need somebody to push the clutch pedal down a few times ( with the engine off and in neutral ) , if your sure the clutch pedal mechanism is doing it's job then you'll probably have to bite the bullet and get the clutch itself replaced. I see the cars done over 100k miles, is it the original clutch ? If it is then I'm not surprised it's on it's way out but check the clutch pedal mechanism first.

martroy said:

It seems like the clutch isn't disengaging properly, check that the clutch master cylinder is full of fluid and check that the clutch slave cylinder, down on the clutch housing is being moved fully, you will need somebody to push the clutch pedal down a few times ( with the engine off and in neutral ) , if your sure the clutch pedal mechanism is doing it's job then you'll probably have to bite the bullet and get the clutch itself replaced. I see the cars done over 100k miles, is it the original clutch ? If it is then I'm not surprised it's on it's way out but check the clutch pedal mechanism first.

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Hi Again, ah crap. That sounds very expensive in parts and labour :-(

We've had the car since 2007 (in the family) and they've both said its never been done so yes original. :-/

Will check exactly what you said!

If not it's another item to add to be replaced.

* sigh *

Timing Belt was going to be the 'last' big thing needed done. I guess there'll always be something!

Is this the same as needing a new transmission and is it common for people with old cars to get this replaced or is it a 'sell the car' thing for the typical car owner? Hoping on keeping my Panda for years yet like

SB1500 said:

Is this the same as needing a new transmission and is it common for people with old cars to get this replaced or is it a 'sell the car' thing for the typical car owner? Hoping on keeping my Panda for years yet like

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Don't give up just yet.

From what's been posted thus far, I'd say it's more likely to be the actuating mechanism than the clutch itself - that would be more likely to manifest itself in the form of a slipping clutch. I've run vehicles over 200k miles on the original clutch, so there's no reason to believe yours is worn out based purely on mileage.

The transmission itself is likely just fine, but it won't be for long if you continue to drive with a dragging clutch.

The clutch hydraulics may just need bleeding, or you may need to replace the clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder, or both. The slave cylinder is a common failure which would give you the symptoms you've described & is less than £25 from ECP. It's easy to change.

Start by bleeding the clutch - if you notice an improvement, you'll know you're on the right lines.That will only cost you about £3 for the fluid.

The economics of owning a >10yr old basic Panda are another subject entirely. Essentially you've got a car that'll always be worth around £500 - £750 with a fresh MOT & no major problems; it won't depreciate as such, provided you keep it working. At this point in its life, you've traded the depreciation of a newer car for the increased maintenance cost of an older one. My rule of thumb would be to keep it until the annual cost of repairs exceeds what you'd lose in depreciation if you ran a newer car.

The trick is to keep the maintenance cost down by doing as much work yourself as you can, and buying secondhand parts where possible. Even if major things break, all is not lost - doing it yourself, you could likely replace the complete gearbox with a working unit from a breakers for less than some folks are paying for a main dealer first service on a new Panda.

I once ran a Renault 5 for 13 yrs/215,000 miles and never spent more than £150/yr on servicing & repairs combined. It was still working fine when I sold it for (IIRC) about £650. I was also given for free a Nissan Micra with no front brakes, a gearbox permanently stuck in 2nd and an engine that sounded like a bag of bolts & put that into good working order for less than £100, ran it for six months and sold it for £700.

Sounds like the clutch is on it's last legs.

They don't always slip when they are worn out, but drag.

The clutch hydraulics have self adjusted it right to the end of the pressure plates travel and there's just nothing left of the friction plate, so the whole lot just drags.

A few things point to this.
If the car selects all it's gears ok when not running, but running it won't?
Does if feel like you just can't push the clutch pedel down far enough to get it in gear without it crunching? Lower gears worse than higher gear?

They can grinding or shriek when loaded up due to the rivet heads that hold the friction material on having been uncovered (friction material worn right down) and they can grinding away at the flywheel face.

SB1500 said:

Hey, today I spotted another problem..

When the car was off (and parked) I had it parked in 1st, as it was on a hill. I gently put my arm on the gear selector and it slipped out easily of gear (Without the clutch being pressed)...

I had to try investigate, so with the car off I soon learned every single gear, even reverse can be selected without the clutch .. Shouldn't the clutch 'stop' this? :bang:

[/U]

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Nope, being able to do this is perfectly normal behaviour for a manual car - there's nothing mechanical spinning around when the engine is turned off to prevent you from engaging gears. Although if you can engage gears in such a way you've pretty much ruled out the linkages being the fault.

gazz_bee said:

Nope, being able to do this is perfectly normal behaviour for a manual car - there's nothing mechanical spinning around when the engine is turned off to prevent you from engaging gears. Although if you can engage gears in such a way you've pretty much ruled out the linkages being the fault.

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that was my initial thought..,

sounds pretty "normal to me.."

Symptoms sound like a tired clutch to me.

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies, info and reassurance over these problems. Much appreciated as I don't know very much at all about this area of car ownership yet!

I think some good steps to take might be;-

Check / replace fluid for the transmission and look for leaks
Check / replace the linkage rods/cables if necessary.


^ doing this will not make it worse, is probably one of the less expensive first steps, and if problems persist;-

Get the clutch examined to see if a clutch kit is needed, or slave/master cylinder replacement.

Hopefully there's a way to check this , even if I need to take it to Fiat to see (if it happens to be too complicated for me).

Don't go looking for non-existing problems

gr J

A3jeroen said:

Don't go looking for non-existing problems



gr J

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So I should do nothing? until the day it stops working?

My real fear is if this is an item I can do preventative maintenance on that I'll not realise it needs done and cause hundreds of pounds of damage by ignoring it :-O

Alternatively, if it's fine but it's mid life then I can begin to save for a good repair to be done

Second Goudrons - badly worn clutch.
Delicate question to ask your sister, but did she 'ride' the clutch?
You could just try 'pumping' the clutch two or three times in quick succession before selecting a gear (from stationary). If you find that the lever slips smoothly in after doing this, it would suggest a hydraulics problem - but from what you've described so far it looks like excessive clutch wear. Maybe gentle linkage adjustment needed also.