SB1500 said:

Seriously? And I don't get a say in the matter or to say 'no I'd prefer the repair?'

That's madness! Plus I take it their opinion on the value is final (and probably not great) :-/

Still.. Better than no offer from a normal mechanic? Hmmm

Click to expand...

Seriously.

In law, you are expected to take reasonable steps to minimise your loss, and your loss is no greater than the market value of the car. There's no way they're going to do £1500 of repairs to a car that's worth £500; they'll just offer you the value of the car.

Third party insurance claims are settled on this basis every day.

That said, on a fail safe engine, breaking a belt will only cost them a tow-in & new belt, so they'll most likely fix it.

Realistically, your greatest real risk in keeping this car is that you spend £1000 getting it the way you want it, and then, through no fault of your own, some eejit drives into it & their insurance company offers you £500 in compensation.

Damn.

When I first learned that's basically how the insurance would deal with me in the event of an accident (my fault or not) I came to the conclusion that basically if anything happens that car I may just give up and accept I'm going to be car-less throughout uni :-(

Still, Surely I should still make the investments to attempt to keep the car running in the long term, even if I do make a loss in unforeseen accidents - as if I just lived accepting it then I'd not spend a penny on the basis it could be ploughed into tomorrow :-/

Am I right to conclude it's just one of those risks you have to make in life to own a car?

jrkitching said:

Seriously.

In law, you are expected to take reasonable steps to minimise your loss, and your loss is no greater than the market value of the car. There's no way they're going to do £1500 of repairs to a car that's worth £500; they'll just offer you the value of the car.

Third party insurance claims are settled on this basis every day.

And that, realistically, is probably your greatest real risk in keeping this car - that you spend £1000 getting it the way you want it, and then, through no fault of your own, some eejit drives into it & their insurance company offers you £500 in compensation.

Click to expand...

SB1500 said:

Still, Surely I should still make the investments to attempt to keep the car running in the long term, even if I do make a loss in unforeseen accidents

Click to expand...

Of course you should. And if it encourages you to drive more defensively, so much the better.

SB1500 said:

Am I right to conclude it's just one of those risks you have to make in life to own a car?

Click to expand...

Yes, and over a lifetime, you'll save much more by keeping a good but low-value car in proper working order than you'll ever lose in 'worst case' scenarios.

I ran a Renault 5 for 13 years and 219,000 miles for a total of about £500 in repair parts - nothing much went wrong with it & I fixed everything myself. In year 6, I was offered £400 in part exchange. For the last 8 years of its life, any accident would have written it off. It was still accident-free and working perfectly when I finally sold it on, and I got £680 for it (and was still running for its new owner three years later). That car cost me well under 3p/mile in depreciation, servicing and repairs.

But once a car is more than about six years old, if you rely on franchised dealers for servicing and maintenance, it'll likely cost you more to keep it than to trade it in and start again.

If you really want to lose a lot of money on a car, buy a 3yr old 500 from a franchised dealer at typical current forecourt prices.

Fantastic, it's that kind of use I want out of my Panda!

I want to keep it up with reasonable repairs and investment. Something like the Timing Belt I'll get done out of preventative maintenance, but let's say the head gasket goes and it's going to cost hundreds all at once .. then I'd be forced to part ways and go car-less - that and an accident of course.

I'd love to have this car for maybe 5 years or so and even then, when I can afford maybe something like a brand new Panda 4x4 I'd love to have this Panda as a backup / project car if I should be so lucky!

I appreciate you bringing the point up, as it certainly is a strong fact to take onboard and think about as the owner!

SB1500 said:

...but let's say the head gasket goes and it's going to cost hundreds all at once .. then I'd be forced to part ways and go car-less - that and an accident of course.

Click to expand...

Your best insurance against head gasket failure is to never, ever, drive the car if it's low on coolant. The Panda is well known for leaking coolant, and there isn't much to start with, so make this part of your weekly checks. If you're driving along with the heater on and it starts blowing cold air, that's a sure sign you're low on coolant; stop immediately and top up the header tank before driving on.

The second best insurance against premature engine failure is to change the oil & filter regularly. Even if your finances mean you have to defer something else, make sure you at least do this. Check the oil level every time you put petrol in it; you've normally got a level surface, a canopy for weather protection, decent lighting, free gloves, something to wipe your dipstick on, and a bin to put the oily wipe in afterwards. Why more folks don't do this is beyond me; I can't remember the last time I saw anyone else checking their oil on a forecourt.

The third thing you can do is to keep the revs down. If you always keep it below 3000rpm and do the other two things I've mentioned, you're practically guaranteed to get 250,000 miles out of a FIRE engine. There's no reason I can think of why you shouldn't get another five years from your car.

My current Panda is now on about 67,000 miles (I've had it from new) and, apart from a few service parts, 4 tyres, and a set of front brakes (less than £40) it's needed absolutely nothing. Doesn't use much fuel, either.

Driven carefully, and owner maintained, motoring doesn't get much cheaper than a Panda.

I'm always watching the temperature gauge, and I do weekly checks (but it's VERY difficult given the position of my coolant reservoir - behind the grille). So far no leaks, touch wood. If leaks do develop (even with clean, new coolant) is there much I can do about it or is that a 'get what you can out of the car and scrap it' situation? :-/ Waterpump is being replaced with the timing by Fiat btw, would this help prevent leaks or risk developing one as the closed circuit of cooling is going to be modified for the first time in ten years?

I plan on changing the oil and filter every 5,000 miles - before any grit can develop in it! I usually check the oil weekly, but you say to increase this to each time I add petrol? Even at the station as you say? I don't mind this but I am aware I'll probably get stared at / beeped at to move forward - I don't care, and I'll do it if it's part of maintaining my car but only if you say it's useful!

I have been guilty of revving her up a bit over normal a few times. I also can't decide whether to change gear at 2000rpm or 2500rpm - I'd go for reduced engine wear even if this reduced MPG slightly btw.

I would love 250,000 miles. Everybody says 'petrols are done after 100,000.. 'especially on a Fiat of all things'' which really f**ks me off! Would love the Panda to make it to 250k, even 200k!

I am committed to doing those checks you say, but tell me this, is changing the coolant (drain and refill) every year too often? I read coolant can last 5 years but honestly don't mind paying £20 for a big bottle from Hellfrauds ready-mixed if it meant reducing risk!

I remember when mine was at 68k, in 2013 when it was handed to my sister (who owned it for two years..) I got it last October with 98k - probably the highest intensity of miles its ever covered when she owned it. I plan on doing 12k per year give or take, but this might increase - who knows?!

As mine is ten, it has needed (as far as I can recall)..
- new fuel pump (£140 for the Bosch one I wanted)
- new keys (£200 ish from FIAT before I owned it thankfully)
- new coil spring for MOT
- EP Steering issues years and years ago, with no problems since thank god!
and now...
- (now), this week, two new shocks
- (now),new handbrake (idiot sister got it welded last year..)
- (now),new oil seal eventually..
- (now),timing belt due to age and mileage

Main point but, I do love this car. It's so unique (in my area), compact and easy to drive and handle, has a reportedly bulletproof engine, small wheels that I can replace without sweating over, 5 doors (handy), uses almost NO petrol as you've said! I can drive it way more than my friends can as their cars are fuel hogs! And it's pretty fast / nippy due to the sheer lack of weight and I love it!

My next car will be the latest Panda at the time with heated seats and the 4x4 option! That's literally all I want. People think I'm mad and laugh at the fact that 'he actually WANTS to drive a Fiat' but personally I think it's mad to own a car you cant afford to drive for fun!

Wow, this post is large! haha

SB1500 said:

...but it's VERY difficult given the position of my coolant reservoir - behind the grille

Click to expand...

Make a few single-use dipsticks out of strips of scrap cardboard - it'll make checking much easier, and more accurate.

SB1500 said:

is changing the coolant (drain and refill) every year too often? I read coolant can last 5 years but honestly don't mind paying £20 for a big bottle from Hellfrauds ready-mixed if it meant reducing risk!

Click to expand...

If you're using a pink OAT coolant, then every 2-3 years is absolutely fine.

SB1500 said:

I have been guilty of revving her up a bit over normal a few times. I also can't decide whether to change gear at 2000rpm or 2500rpm - I'd go for reduced engine wear even if this reduced MPG slightly btw.

Click to expand...

Most folks hang on to the lower gears for too long - the Fiat ecodriving recommendations for best economy might surprise you.

1st>2nd <2000
2nd>3rd 1600-1700
3rd>4th 1500-1600
4th>5th 1400-1500

This also needs a light touch on the throttle, and a bit of adjustment upward for hills. You won't be going anywhere in a hurry on these numbers, but you should see at least 60mpg on the trip computer most of the time.

jrkitching said:

The third thing you can do is to keep the revs down. If you always keep it below 3000rpm and do the other two things I've mentioned, you're practically guaranteed to get 250,000 miles out of a FIRE engine. There's no reason I can think of why you shouldn't get another five years from your car.

Click to expand...

Owning a 100HP doesn't really equate to low revs

Leeski said:

Owning a 100HP doesn't really equate to low revs

Click to expand...

Indeed it doesn't; but the 100HP was never designed to be an ecocar.

The OP has a 1.2, and is trying to run it as economically as possible on a tight budget.

A 100HP has a different, yet strangely similar mission - it's for those folks who want a bit of fun and performance on a tight budget, and it's as good at this as the 1.2 is at outright lowest cost motoring .

I can't see the point of driving a 100HP at 1500 rpm either, but if I had to run a used car at minimum cost, a Euro4 1.2 Dynamic Eco Panda would be my first choice out of everything that's out there. I've seen 80mpg on the trip on a 100 mile journey; there aren't many petrol cars that can do that. £30 RFL and about £120 to insure it; what's not to like?

Long live the Panda!

Well I agree with most of the advice, but I'd say the only reason to change the oil and filter at 5000 miles is if you

a) use the cheapest old-fashioned mineral oil you can find, or

b) do all your driving in the city

Once a year (ish) with a good quality semi-synthetic (e.g. Mobil, Shell, etc) should do you fine for a mixed-style 12,000 miles of driving.

Also regarding the revs... I don't see the point in a middle-aged man telling a 17 year old NOT to rev his little Fiat engine... that's the whole point of them surely! They're designed and built for it! Lots of fun and sensation without dangerous speeds. That was James May's philisophy on the Panda, especially with skinny tyres... You'll learn a lot about driving and car control, especially if the car is potentially a bit flimsy in a crash and you care about keeping it for a while.

Finally I assume that if Fiat are doing the waterpump then a full change of the coolant with the proper stuff will be included, and that should do you for 3-4 years as well.

Enjoy your ownership, and learning about car care and maintenance.

It's not easy getting service from a dealership for a older car. . . They sell cars and yours is past it's sell by date

A timing belt kit branded are available from about £15
2 drop links are available for similar
Front shocks are available for £40 odd


Well here's a bit of advice from a 58 year old who has covered more miles with FIRE engines than perhaps anyone here
The first FIRE engine here in out yard was in a 127
Do not be afraid to rev the thing. . I seldom changed before 4000rpm


Change the oil and filter every year and dont worry about the brand of the oil. . You'll have diffs finding bad oil today. . These engines have been around long before semi this that and the other. . These engines have been around a lot longer than me children and they're all married. .

The oil leak from the bell housing area could well be the O-ring at the rear of the engine where the ign coils mount. . Prior to the coils being there there was a distributor and it leaked also
If the engine does not appear to be using oil dont even start to fix it. . It will not get worse in a hurry

Dont worry about the drop links unless the MOT man fails them and if your really into saving money remove the anti roll bar and links. . . If your driving as slowly as your early posts suggest your not going to notice
A none existent anti roll bar is not an MOT fail as it's not there and it certainly will not rattle afterwards

If the front strut is visibly leaking put one in it. . . Pretty basic job. . . Springs are not very heavy so near any set of compressors will do the job

If the hand brake is working leave well alone. . .

You dont say how many miles are on the timing belt??

If you were near to me I'd do everything for little more than the price of one of your quoted items and I'd even let you sit in a chair and keep me in chat provided you didnt cold as I dont believe in wasting money on heat

The Panda is one of the simplest cars on the planet and therefore the easiest worked on

You'll find a local man who will sort you out for a fraction of what you were quoted

I would be utterly amazed if your 127 ever had the FIRE engine. The 127's replacement the Uno never got the FIRE till late MK1s in '85... till then they had either the 127 engine or the 128/Strada/X-19 engine. Similarly the Panda.

Frim Wikipedia...

Initially, the Uno was offered with the 0.9 litre (903 cc) OHV, 1.1 litre (1116 cc), and 1.3 litre (1301 cc) 138-series SOHC petrol engines and transmissions carried over from the 127.

From 1985, the 1.0 litre (999 cc) SOHC Fully Integrated Robotised Engine (FIRE) powerplant was offered. This was a lighter engine, built with fewer parts, and gave improved performance and economy.

Sorry, , Uno
It was before I was married and I dont think it makes that much odds does it?

colstown said:

...if your really into saving money remove the anti roll bar and links...

Click to expand...

Removal of the droplinks and/or anti roll bar should result in the tester failing the car. Driving without these components fitted would almost certainly invalidate your insurance, too.

Reason for rejection:

2.4.1 A suspension component or its attachment bracket or linkage missing where one is fitted as standard

Only trying to be helpful
I've removed and seen countless anti roll bars removed without any real harm to handling or safety and our MOT staff here are all employed by Gov and should know what they are doing but I can see that my advice is not working so I'd like to be off of this place so Mr Moderator if you could be so perfect and all knowing as to pint me to how I unregistered myself from yet another bunch of knowall's I'll not be annoying anyone any longer

colstown said:

I
<SNIP>
if your really into saving money remove the anti roll bar and links. . . If your driving as slowly as your early posts suggest your not going to notice
A none existent anti roll bar is not an MOT fail as it's not there and it certainly will not rattle afterwards
<SNIP>

Click to expand...

On some suspension designs the anti-roll bar locates the lower suspension (Lotus Elite is one I have had personal bad experience with when he roll bar bracket broke in the middle of a junction and I ended up up a bank). You can't just make broad brush statements like this.

Robert G8RPI.

Nothing like a Lotus. . .
It was not a broad brush comment. . It was a comment in connection with a Panda

Now will some nice understanding human being tell me how to get unregistered from this abominable site in order that I dont have to see any more of this

colstown said:

Only trying to be helpful
I've removed and seen countless anti roll bars removed without any real harm to handling or safety and our MOT staff here are all employed by Gov and should know what they are doing but I can see that my advice is not working so I'd like to be off of this place so Mr Moderator if you could be so perfect and all knowing as to pint me to how I unregistered myself from yet another bunch of knowall's I'll not be annoying anyone any longer

Click to expand...

colstown said:

Now will some nice understanding human being tell me how to get unregistered from this abominable site in order that I dont have to see any more of this

Click to expand...

bye :wave:

I have to admit that my days of grovelling around under a car in the rain have long gone, but, for what it's worth, there has been some good advice on this thread so far. What I'd also consider is looking at the drain holes in the bottom of the doors and the tailgate. Sadly, in the last couple of months I've found corrosion in both the n/s sill and the tailgate, but I too want to keep the little Panda going as long as possible so it's going in for that work in the next couple of weeks.

There are some essential staples (in my opinion) that are indispensible.

1) Can of brake cleaner; good at getting all sorts of gunk off all sorts of places.
2) Good set of basic spanners or sockets. If need be, buy them as needed.
3) Can of penetrating oil.
4) Check if your local college offers night classes in car maintenance. Sometimes the classes will use a pupil's car as an example. Free repair.
5) Find a local mechanic, stalk him, take embarrassing photos then blackmail him.

Please note, No. 5 is optional, and illegal.