Technical Panda MJ Drum Brake Shoes .How Hard to Fit ?

Currently reading:
Technical Panda MJ Drum Brake Shoes .How Hard to Fit ?

ytareh

Established member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
534
Points
211
I know there are a few good posts on these but can someone tell me how tricky these are likely to be .Have been changing oil etc for literally decades but only did first brake pads over the Summer .How long should I allow working slowly ? So the adjuster is as fragile as glass and shouldn't be 'stabbed with a screwdriver '(!) Apart from drums themselves is anything else likely to be sticky .I tried vainly to tighten the rear / handbrake up a while ago by tightening cable adjuster AT the handbrake .I should loosen this a bit before starting ? Thanks for all opinions ,advice even if only to advise I drop it in to local mechanic.
 
Can't advise on how to change but give your rear brake cylinders a good check. If there's any sign of leaking, you'll need to change them too.

I had the misfortune of being told that my brakes were fine at a full service by a 'specialist', when in reality they obviously hadn't been checked. Both cylinders were leaking and one of the rear shoes delaminated on me and I was lucky that it didn't jam the wheel and spin me. When I needed to stop, there was no brake effort. Just a grinding sound. I managed to stop safely engine breaking mainly. Not an experience I'd like to repeat.
 
Yeah I read that post . So ,so many cowboys out there . Bet you had that literally gut wrenching feeling after . I had a small slide on ice on Friday morning the sort you'd get a few times a year but continue on your way ( slower!) ,but enough to actually ponder on that physical reaction in mid crisis/crash .I wonder if it's simply tensing waiting for the wallop or some hormone release site going into overdrive ?! It seems to be centered an inch or two above belly button so probably not literally intestinal ( maybe this isn't strictly a Panda tech question!)
 
Well after 6-8 hours working on car in Arctic conditions ( thank God it didn't rain !) I can answer my own question about how hard brake SHOES are to fit :F#%^ING HARD !

This is the best help available here and what I referred to

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/235078-rear-drum-strip-clean.html

Maybe you can learn a little or give advice from my 'experience ' ( misadventure )

My shoes were Mintex and same as 2007 Fiat 500 ( MJ?) Started on drivers side , drums came off super easy . Disassembly moderately difficult but not too tricky .

TAKE PHOTOS CONSTANTLY !!!(At least on first side if you reckon you can 'think in mirror image ' for second )You WILL regret it if you don't take pics . I can almost guarantee it . Concentrate on top half when photographing . There are four different spring connection points . Getting them wrong even with pics was one of my mistakes .

The whole horrible experience involved lots of redoing due to mistakes / lack of understanding .

I wirebrushed the outside of the drum and gave it a quick black spray . The can needed a few minutes in hot water it was so cold out !

Putting the springs back on was a NIGHTMARE .I even tried opening the bleed nipple and reservoir cap to no avail , trying to squeeze in piston ,eventually realised if Id loosened out the 'self adjuster ' ( a CURSE of a contraption !) they would have gone on far easier . ( Yes ,I know this is mentioned in guide - but they can't be adjusted in situ when worn necessitating almost complete disassembly to readjust )Long 'Rat tail 'pliers and a selection of flathead screwdrivers especially a smallish one are what I used .



After four hours I had the first side done and reckoned the second should take under forty minutes . Wrong !

The drum wouldn't come off yet it could be shifted a good few mm forward with the claw of a hammer . It was like it was attached by a spring . Eventually I got it off with the 'two bolts ' method but not before giving myself a v nasty shock as the second bolt bent on way out .Lucky threads were ok !

The passenger side showed evidence of a seized self adjuster that had been messed about with . I must have taken that side apart and redone it 3 or 4 times although I guess I was learning all the while . By the way there were totally different shoe retaining clips to any Ive seen before . They worked by pressing in with tips of pliers and rotating 90 degrees

Then the drum wouldn't fit over the shoes . Once again the adjuster being slack was cure .

After all my efforts testing on stands suggested slightly improved overall hand brake performance BUT coming almost exclusively from the drivers side . Both sides appeared to stop well using pedal .

Road test not that inspiring either . Seems at best exact same . There WAS meat on the shoes at 150k miles so I guess they were done before 100k .(kinda sorry I bothered but educational in a 'school of hard knocks ' way .) I couldn't get abs to lock up on rear wheels on verge on rear wheels ( on quiet country lane ) Car still feels as if front 'diving' excessively under hard braking while rears seems lazy Maybe there's a front /rear 'brake balancer ' somewhere .( No idea how it works !)

I would advice NOT doing this job when all mechanics are off duty over the weekend and you have to be in work 40 miles away Monday morn !On at least three or four occasions I was sure I was going to be stuck and posts even need car fixed by a pro in my driveway .

Seriously consider buying fitting kit ( and including (?) self adjusters )

I may still end up asking a pro to do this . Will the handbrake imbalance fail NCT /MOT ?
 
Last edited:
Well after 6-8 hours working on car in Arctic conditions ( thank God it didn't rain !) I can answer my own question about how hard brake SHOES are to fit :F#%^ING HARD !

This is the best help available here and what I referred to

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/235078-rear-drum-strip-clean.html

Maybe you can learn a little or give advice from my 'experience ' ( misadventure )

My shoes were Mintex and same as 2007 Fiat 500 ( MJ?) Started on drivers side , drums came off super easy . Disassembly moderately difficult but not too tricky .

TAKE PHOTOS CONSTANTLY !!!(At least on first side if you reckon you can 'think in mirror image ' for second )You WILL regret it if you don't take pics . I can almost guarantee it . Concentrate on top half when photographing . There are four different spring connection points . Getting them wrong even with pics was one of my mistakes .

The whole horrible experience involved lots of redoing due to mistakes / lack of understanding .

I wirebrushed the outside of the drum and gave it a quick black spray . The can needed a few minutes in hot water it was so cold out !

Putting the springs back on was a NIGHTMARE .I even tried opening the bleed nipple and reservoir cap to no avail , trying to squeeze in piston ,eventually realised if Id loosened out the 'self adjuster ' ( a CURSE of a contraption !) they would have gone on far easier . ( Yes ,I know this is mentioned in guide - but they can't be adjusted in situ when worn necessitating almost complete disassembly to readjust )Long 'Rat tail 'pliers and a selection of flathead screwdrivers especially a smallish one are what I used .



After four hours I had the first side done and reckoned the second should take under forty minutes . Wrong !

The drum wouldn't come off yet it could be shifted a good few mm forward with the claw of a hammer . It was like it was attached by a spring . Eventually I got it off with the 'two bolts ' method but not before giving myself a v nasty shock as the second bolt bent on way out .Lucky threads were ok !

The passenger side showed evidence of a seized self adjuster that had been messed about with . I must have taken that side apart and redone it 3 or 4 times although I guess I was learning all the while . By the way there were totally different shoe retaining clips to any Ive seen before . They worked by pressing in with tips of pliers and rotating 90 degrees

Then the drum wouldn't fit over the shoes . Once again the adjuster being slack was key.

After all my efforts testing on stands suggested improved overall hand brake performance BUT coming almost exclusively from the drivers side . Both sides appeared to stop well using pedal .

Road test not that inspiring either . Seems at best exact same . There WAS meat on the shoes at 150k miles so I guess they were done before 100k . I couldn't get abs to lock up on rear wheels on verge on rear wheels ( on quiet country lane ) Maybe there's a front /rear 'brake balancer ' somewhere .( No idea how it works !)

I would advice NOT doing this job when all mechanical are off duty over the weekend and you have to be in work 40 miles away Monday morn !

Seriously consider buying fitting kit ( and including (?) self adjusters )

I may still end up asking a pro to do this . Will the handbrake imbalance fail NCT /MOT ?

When I had my rear shoes replaced, it took them around a week to settle in properly. They didn't seem to work effectively that quick. If you're in doubt, get someone to check your work. It'll do no harm.

And yes you'd fail MoT with imbalance beyond the tolerances they set. I'd prefer to get any brake work to be done at least a fortnight before MoT to allow things to settle properly before the test. Is it due soon?
 
No , not for months , just felt like treating the aul girl as a 150k miles on clock reward ! I reckon if I take the pass side drum off and tweak the adjuster I might get away with that .But leaving it at least until hols .
 
No , not for months , just felt like treating the aul girl as a 150k miles on clock reward ! I reckon if I take the pass side drum off and tweak the adjuster I might get away with that .But leaving it at least until hols .

I had thought about treating Dez for his 10th birthday next May. However after his expenses for this year, he'll be getting sod all from me when his birthday comes around apart from an MoT and tax for another year. I'm trying to work out how many weeks he's spent in the dealers this year. I'm thinking 6 or 7 in total. I'm sure he's spent more time with them than a lot of cars on the forecourt. He seems to prefer it there than with me. I wonder how much his latest escapade will cost. Although the Multijet is a good engine, I'm afraid that after the problems I've had over this last year, I think that if I was to go for a new car, it would probably be a twinair. With new diesel cars having DPFs, that's an extra expense to avoid! The 1.2 engine in the 500s I've driven this year were a bit gutless for me...
 
Panda MJ diesel 2005 with 155k miles up just back from NCT ( Irish MOT) .It failed on rear'service' (parking?) brake imbalance .Not entirely unexpected as I'd struggled with a seized adjuster recently and drums are badly lipped , probably in car from new .I changed the shoes . Basically the adjuster doesn't self adjust .It has to be screwed tightly on thread into position .And if too tight the drums won't even fit on :-(

Anyway should I just buy a new adjuster for the 'bad' / weak side (and drums ?) Are cylinders likely to be needed ?

Cheap source for adjusters? Not on Shop4 Parts
Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Whatever you decide to do, I'd recommend doing both sides and not just the bad one. You'll end up with an imbalance with one new and one old. Is there any sign of leakage from the cylinders?
 
No , no leakage .Those adjusters seem to range from £25-60 each and drums around the same .only Been using shoes for a couple of months so loathe to buy new ones .A full rebuild would be pricey for parts alone ...Then again it is a reliable, economical car that has never failed me .

But seat fraying badly at bolster , steering super shiny .Red paint faded UNDER lacquer ....MINI Diesel would be nice but reckon I will give it another try to pass the test .Emmisions (smoke)a third of what they were in test two years ago !Getting cleaner with age !
 
If only the adjuster for the handbrake is your problem, I see no harm in doing just that on only one side.

gr J

Another epic session working on these .fitted two new drums and self adjusters only to find passengers side handbrake still feeble .Bought a pair of wheel brake cylinders and called it a day after hours in rain .Will restart process all over again tommorow :-(
 
Yeah they look ok .I loosened both ends and gave a tug from handbrake side and it moved reasonably ok
 
LOTS of different wheel cylinders .Given wrong ones by motor factors .Bendix/Lockheed /ABS/non etc ...
 
LOTS of different wheel cylinders .Given wrong ones by motor factors .Bendix/Lockheed /ABS/non etc ...

This really is breaking my heart ! Could have spent best part of 24 hours on it at this stage .There is little or no hand brake action on rear passenger wheel .I have changed pads ( a couple of months ago , they have one or two chips /chunks out of them from impatient rough handling but seem sound enough ) drums , self adjusters on both sides and lastly wheel cylinder on passenger side .Still the passenger side does little or nothing .Help ?! Could it be cable ? It seems to move fine .Everything is clean .I drove car to and fro braking in car park for ages .There may have been clicking from drivers side ( self adjuster ?)
Don't want to pay a pro to redo all work Ive done and still have it fail NCT/MOT
 
Self adjusters don't seem to self adjust on passenger side .I have to turn them with a screwdriver and they keep on ending up being too loose or tight .Currently car is overheating drum on passenger side although pedal braking is superb .Im aware this could at best waste fuel and at worst cause accident but nothing else seems to give tight handbrake on both sides .Help please ?! ( Ive tried everything except new cable )
 
Took off drum again for umpteenth time and manually loosened out the 'self adjuster ' . Hopefully will 'bed in ' over next week or so before retest . Thinking more and more it may be cable .Nothing else left . Could it stretch lots relative to driver side which is faultless in hand braking ? Loathe to spend more money/time on car after 130 euro / £100 on seemingly unnecessary parts and two full days wasted .
Any opinions much appreciated
 
By the way I got someone to sit in car and pull handbrake with drums off .The good side had a nice scissors motion while the bad side only moved one shoe a little bit .The former goes from super loose to super tight when handbrake pulled while bad side can be slightly snatching the wheel when lever all the way down but yet when all the way up its not much better .
 
Back
Top