Hello all

I've been trying to search for this, but with no usefull answer

Specs: Car is Fiat Panda 1.2 ltr from 2003.

Short version: Can you fit a 100hp engine in a normal 1.2 ltr car?

Longer version: What is needed to fit the engine in a 1.2 ltr gasoline car.
(Ofc. the engine itself with ECU box. but what about speedometer? drive axels? mounts, brakes, suspension and so forth)

Also, do other engines work as well? like a 1.4 16v from a punto or cinquecento?

Sorry if this has been covered but I can't really find it

It would be cheaper to just buy a 100HP, insurance would be cheaper too, unless your not going to declare it (which is also illegal).

Why bother if it's already available. Not worth the effort in my opinion.

It would, but it's really hard to find one in Denmark, and I need a new project

I got my hands on an extremely nice panda but I would prefer 100hp to 60hp any day

so all I need is, it is doable and what is required for this to work

Honestly, I don't think it's worth it. The 100HP might be hard to find in Denmark, but 100HP parts aren't exactly easy to come across either. The easiest way to get the vast array of parts which you'd need would be to buy an entire donor car, which you might as well drive rather than hack apart.

If you really do want to do it, don't forget the 6 speed 'box out of the 100HP, it wasn't on your original list.

You'll basically need to buy a 100hp and transplant all of the running gear, wiring looms and ECUs over.

Basically better off buying one and using it

I'd agree with the others - the 100hp is a bit rare to even get the parts. Same engine was in the old Punto I guess.


Perhaps an alternative is to supercharge the 1.2 engine and modify your suspension/brakes. There's chap on here that has a supercharged 1.2 4x4, though I don't think it was easy (because of the ECU)

Why not buy a 100HP, from Italy if necessary? The effort involved in the conversion would be immense and the results would be bound to disappoint.

Far better off getting a 1.4 8v and pop that in should work on the same ecu just make sure you use the pulleys off the original engine to ensure ignition timing is still the same.

Has anyone ever put a 16v head on an 8v FIRE? Doesn't the 1.2 16v have about 85 BHP?

AB100 said:

Perhaps an alternative is to supercharge the 1.2 engine and modify your suspension/brakes. There's chap on here that has a supercharged 1.2 4x4, though I don't think it was easy (because of the ECU)

Click to expand...

That one is dead in the water, the Rotrex Supercharger gave up his live.

Hans is correct - my Rotrex sheared its turbine shaft and the US company were not interested in a warranty or goodwill replacement. So I now have probably the worlds only Used-To-Be-Supercharged Panda 4x4.....!

But as a previous answer said, the 1.4 8v block would fit straight on and would run on the same ECU I suspect. Should give 15-20% power increase, all things being equal with a healthy induction and exhaust setup.

R1NGA said:

Hans is correct - my Rotrex sheared its turbine shaft and the US company were not interested in a warranty or goodwill replacement. So I now have probably the worlds only Used-To-Be-Supercharged Panda 4x4.....!

Click to expand...

Damn I never knew it gave up the ghost. When did that happen out of interest

Bad that they wouldn't honour the warranty

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Damn I never knew it gave up the ghost. When did that happen out of interest

Bad that they wouldn't honour the warranty

Click to expand...

It was all going so well too....! My ECU mapper expert managed to crack the Magneti Marelli IAW5NF unit and did a very thorough job on the final setup. I was back up to 38mpg and made 113bhp/103torx into the bargain. The world was good and very stealthy.

Then the Rotrex started to make more of a classic s/c whine, which was no big deal. In fact it sounded really rather good and there it stabilised for a couple of thousand miles. But then it started to make more noise and I assumed the culprit was the outrigger/tensioner bearing, as that's where my ears told me it was coming from (using the classic screwdriver handle in the ear trick). I was therefore happy to let it rumble for a while before I attempted to pull the tensioner apart.

But, on Christmas day, with the car loaded up with food and presents, we set off for the Outlaws and within a mile it was clear that things were becoming terminal. The noise got quite bad and then all of a sudden it disappeared completely - result I thought, that dodgy bearing must have found its track again! But no, with the lack of noise came the spectre of a lack of boost too. I assumed the belt had pulled off as a result of tensioner bearing failure, so limped home and got another car....

On Boxing Day (wasn't popular, I admit), I opened the bonnet to find that the belt was in fact still in place, the drive side of the Rotrex was being powered, but the compressor side was all floppy and going nowhere - drive failure inside the Rotrex. Arse.

Took it off and sent it off to TTS who were very good, but explained that they were not able to provide a warranty replacement as it was 3 years old nearly and had 20,000 miles on it. Whilst they accepted that it should not have failed, they were obliged to send it back to the US for Rotrex to take a view. I have no issues with TTS whatsoever and they remain one of my favourite engineering and tuning outfits.

Very little contact from Rotrex in the US other than no, we won't replace it. To be honest I didn't have the heart to fight it, nor the willingness to throw another £1500-1800 at it to get another unit built up and installed. I've done too much on that car already, so it's just a memory now unfortunately.

Bl00dy good fun whilse it lasted though

Ok to gather up on all the "get another car" answers.

There is a reason as to why I don't do that.

1) the tax for that would be the price of the car + 180% of the street sale value at a dealer (average price) Yes that's how it works to import a car in Denmark and also the reason we drive ****ty cars. (so basically if I buy an italian car in italy at a price of 1000 pounds and wants to get plates for it in Denmark, I have to pay 1000 + 180% of that, which adds up to 2800 pounds. Now the we have to add transport, thats not cheap either. So it's way cheaper to find an engine and use that in the chassis I have which have the tax paid off.

2) insurance is insanely high if I want to change car again due to age and where I live (city area)

3) I have easy access to a garage with everything I can ever dream of. Lift, tools en masse, friends who can help and so forth. It's considered easyer to rebuild an engine and do a swap than to import a car. I have to work many times more to earn the money than to put another engine in it.

What I once read, but can't find, was that the chassis was modified to have the 100hp engine in (I guess other drive shafts, gearbox, suspension, brakes and so on) so I wanted to know if anyone knew was the exact difference between my dull 1.2 and the 100hp engine.

I have around 140 KM or driving every day so the fact that the 100hp goes 15km/liter is considered good. the 1.2 goes 17 so it's not a great loss for me to gain allmost 66% more power (in DK you can calculate 1000 DKR into 1 HP, thats about 100 pound pr. horsepower on non turbo/supercharged engines so this is extremely cheap power-ups)

so if I could get an engine (no tax on that) would be WAY cheaper for me.
Also, way easier to put into the car.

If I buy an engine, it's with the ECU and complete wire loom.

What I need to know is, does it fit right in?
Does the speedometer show correct or do I need to get one from the 100hp car?
Can the driveshafts handle the increse of power?
I guess that the gearbox is not the same too?

The 1.4 you talk about, is that the one from the punto 2003 -> 1,4 16v dynamic/sporting ? is that a direct fit? again, gearbox, driveshaft, speedometer and so forth.

I haven't seen an answer, and I belive it's not been done before. (prolly because in most other countrys the tax ain't as insanely high as in DK, so it's no use in other places)

But I have made my panda as I want it with everything I can think of of modifications to it, all I need now is more power and better seats. (ex. the ones from the 100hp)

oh yeah also, buying a donor car is a great idea and an easy way to get the parts I need, but it's not cheap due to transport. (there is no tax on a donor car as long as the VIN never gets plates on and it may never drive on the road in Denmark unless tax is paid. the fee for doing so is 2xtax and if you get a ticket for ex. speeding you have to pay that too, also your insurance dosen't cover a non-taxed car)

So basically, I need the differences on the car, nothing else.

Hope this put the problem in perspective as to why I need the parts and not another car

also, special tuning rules say that if I add a turbo to a non-turbo engine, I have to pay a whole new tax (same for superchargers) that means the original tax I paid is lost and can't be refunded, then I have to pay a new and higher tax for the modifications, also I need to go through tests that also cost a buttload, so going turbo is not an option unfortunately

UNLESS there is a model of the Fiat Panda 2003-2012 that came originalli fitted with a turbo and was not above 20% in power of my original 60hp engine (72hp) and I doubt that happened

Sorry for the long post though.

way3000 said:

Ok to gather up on all the "get another car" answers.

There is a reason as to why I don't do that.

1) the tax for that would be the price of the car + 180% of the street sale value at a dealer (average price ....

UNLESS there is a model of the Fiat Panda 2003-2012 that came originalli fitted with a turbo and was not above 20% in power of my original 60hp engine (72hp) and I doubt that happened

Sorry for the long post though.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry to say this but the sort of question you're asking suggests one of two things - or both.

1: You haven't done much research into your project - I know that the purpose of your original posting was to find out more information but your question about gearboxes, for instance, makes my point.

2: Despite the access to facilities that you mention, your questions lead me to doubt that you have the technical knowledge to carry out the extensive modification you'd be attempting. This kind of project has the tendency to drag on and on as a mass of detailed problems arise and it requires great tenacity and expertise to complete, especially to complete safely and competently.

The 100HP is very different mechanically from the other Pandas. The drive train is totally different - engine and all its ancillaries, gearbox, the rest of the transmission; brakes, springs and dampers; power steering; wheels.

R1NGA said:

It was all going so well too....! My ECU mapper expert managed to crack the Magneti Marelli IAW5NF unit and did a very thorough job on the final setup. I was back up to 38mpg and made 113bhp/103torx into the bargain. The world was good and very stealthy.

Then the Rotrex started to make more of a classic s/c whine, which was no big deal. In fact it sounded really rather good and there it stabilised for a couple of thousand miles. But then it started to make more noise and I assumed the culprit was the outrigger/tensioner bearing, as that's where my ears told me it was coming from (using the classic screwdriver handle in the ear trick). I was therefore happy to let it rumble for a while before I attempted to pull the tensioner apart.

But, on Christmas day, with the car loaded up with food and presents, we set off for the Outlaws and within a mile it was clear that things were becoming terminal. The noise got quite bad and then all of a sudden it disappeared completely - result I thought, that dodgy bearing must have found its track again! But no, with the lack of noise came the spectre of a lack of boost too. I assumed the belt had pulled off as a result of tensioner bearing failure, so limped home and got another car....

On Boxing Day (wasn't popular, I admit), I opened the bonnet to find that the belt was in fact still in place, the drive side of the Rotrex was being powered, but the compressor side was all floppy and going nowhere - drive failure inside the Rotrex. Arse.

Took it off and sent it off to TTS who were very good, but explained that they were not able to provide a warranty replacement as it was 3 years old nearly and had 20,000 miles on it. Whilst they accepted that it should not have failed, they were obliged to send it back to the US for Rotrex to take a view. I have no issues with TTS whatsoever and they remain one of my favourite engineering and tuning outfits.

Very little contact from Rotrex in the US other than no, we won't replace it. To be honest I didn't have the heart to fight it, nor the willingness to throw another £1500-1800 at it to get another unit built up and installed. I've done too much on that car already, so it's just a memory now unfortunately.

Bl00dy good fun whilse it lasted though

Click to expand...

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

babbo_umbro said:

I'm sorry to say this but the sort of question you're asking suggests one of two things - or both.

1: You haven't done much research into your project - I know that the purpose of your original posting was to find out more information but your question about gearboxes, for instance, makes my point.

2: Despite the access to facilities that you mention, your questions lead me to doubt that you have the technical knowledge to carry out the extensive modification you'd be attempting. This kind of project has the tendency to drag on and on as a mass of detailed problems arise and it requires great tenacity and expertise to complete, especially to complete safely and competently.

The 100HP is very different mechanically from the other Pandas. The drive train is totally different - engine and all its ancillaries, gearbox, the rest of the transmission; brakes, springs and dampers; power steering; wheels.

Click to expand...

1: I know the gearbox is different, which is why I wrote it like a rethorical question. What I don't know is the complete list as I keep asking for.

2: I've made engine swaps in countless BMW's and MB's but the panda is my first FWD car.

Don't think about the time, I can make it in a day or two if it's a fit. (meaning no custom exhaust, engine mounts, intake manifolds and such have to be made to make the fit.

I've been working with engines for the last 4 years now and all I need is the data on what parts I need for a complete fit.

for example, in the BMW world, you have tons of interchangeable parts, but the suspension from the cab and the sedan ain't the same at where it mounts.

A project takes tons of time and drags on forever if you never do your pre-work, as I am trying to do here.

you mention alot of things. I can easily figure out the engine/drivetrain is different. same as BMW 320 to 325 for example.

But again. Does the gearbox mount to a different piece of metal which I need to get to fasten it or does it fit fine on the original mounting place?

it seems people are not willing or able to answer this question on what parts are different on the 100hp one.

Beside the obvious.

things like is the fuel pump bigger/stronger in the 100hp so that I need that one too? does the wire looms connect or are they also different?

You mention wheels and power steering.
Ofc. the wheels have to fit the brakes, that's a no brainer and the power steering has nothing to do with the engine so I can leave that out too. It's an electrical system stand-alone.

I belive your point at saying I don't know my stuff dosen't apply, hopefully, and that now someone can safely supply me with the answer from my previous post.

What parts do I need to harvest from a 100hp panda to make my 1.2 a 100hp one. (not including stuff like A/C, but purely engine parts/suspension/brakes and so forth.) all I want is that so that I can get startet harvesting.

unless someone can supply me with this answer, I have to find a scrap one and start measuring, reading part#'s and trying, which makes it a looooooong time project.

I think the truth is, that nobody in the UK would 'need' to swap the engine over which is possibly why you are not getting the answers your after as nobodies done it before.

scout said:

I think the truth is, that nobody in the UK would 'need' to swap the engine over which is possibly why you are not getting the answers your after as nobodies done it before.

Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

In short you will need to reshell an entire 100hp's mechanical and running gear into your current Panda