Hi Guys,
My 1st post on here. My mother has a 2006 panda Eleganza dual-logic which has done less than 8k miles from new.

Its a great little car and has been garaged from new. I can't see my Mum ever changing it for anything else.

It has been to the dealer for an oil change every year but has never had a cambelt change. I'm tempted to have it done for her at the next service but can't make up my mind really. Apparently the 1.2 8v is a non interference engine other wise I would probably have had it done already.

What do you all think?

Mark.

The handbook (from 2007, admittedly) says every five years, regardless of mileage: as rubber ages, as well as wears (IYSWIM) -- so I'd have it changed.

Our 2009 has done much less than the recommended 75,000 miles (120,000 km) -- but will also be getting its belt changed, later this year.

PS: Welcome to the forum...!

If it were a car with an interference engine, then I'd be getting it changed tomorrow - the risk of wrecking an engine isn't worth taking the chance.

However, it isn't, and if the belt does break, you won't do any lasting damage to the car. You will, however, be stranded at the side of the road & sod's law would suggest it'll happen in the worst place at the worst time.

Pragmatically the chance of it breaking on a very low mileage 8yr old car is probably quite low, but it certainly could happen. Personally I'd say a belt failure due to water pump seizure is more likely than one due to ageing on a car that's spent the vast majority of its life just sitting around, especially if the coolant has never been changed (which is quite likely). Common sense would suggest replacing both.

You need to weigh up the inconvenience of a breakdown against the cost of replacement now; that's really down to your personal circumstances.

At least you can be reassured it won't harm your engine if it does break, so if you've got a paid up membership with a recovery organisation, it really comes down to whether or not you feel lucky.

Well, do ya?

My partners Eleganza is a 56 plate, which had only done 15k when we bought it last year. I got the cam belt and water pump changed even though it has a full fiat service history. They found the water pump was just starting to weep. So I would change them to be on the safe side.

I think if it was my car then I would just leave it and take a chance but I don't want my Mum to end up stranded somewhere. Its bound to happen when I am working away if it does.
Sounds like the water pump and coolant should be done too if you found one weeping at 15k miles.

What should I be paying for a belt and pump change? It has been to the franchised dealer since new and I think they quoted my Father silly money about 3 years ago henc e it was never done.

I would think the 8v fire engine should be about as cheap as you can get, not many engines about that simple these days.

MarkyTDI said:

I think if it was my car then I would just leave it and take a chance but I don't want my Mum to end up stranded somewhere. Its bound to happen when I am working away if it does.
Sounds like the water pump and coolant should be done too if you found one weeping at 15k miles.

What should I be paying for a belt and pump change? It has been to the franchised dealer since new and I think they quoted my Father silly money about 3 years ago henc e it was never done.

I would think the 8v fire engine should be about as cheap as you can get, not many engines about that simple these days.

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it's a simple enough job,
find a FIAT/ Alfa indy, ( where is the car based?)

would be @ £150 all in I suspect,
cheap for peace of mind,

or @ £60 if you do it yourself..

Charlie - Oxford

You may find the info in this link useful Marky. The 1.4 Grande Punto is a very similar engine to the 1.2 Panda (I know as I have one of each)

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/346863-cost-maintence-other-things.html

fiat_freak said:

You may find the info in this link useful Marky. The 1.4 Grande Punto is a very similar engine to the 1.2 Panda (I know as I have one of each)

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/346863-cost-maintence-other-things.html

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Good post, and also to the OP, do like this guy did and buy quality parts - not some ebay special.... - this is something you do NOT want to skimp on. the water pump forms part of the cam drive system here, the tensioner is also a vital part and needs QUALITY bearing in it, not some cheap ****e. - the belt also needs to be good.
I would get Fiat to do it personally, almost all indies buy crap parts - you buy the parts and get them to fit it, ok..
Also, no one has adequately convinced me yet that the engine IS safe - !!
Haynes say it is NOT. unless someone has actually turned the engine over with the plugs out and belt off with valves full open, I do not accept it.
It is also a fools game to think that it is 'ok if it breaks' it is not - it is almost certain- as pointed out - that it will be in the middle of nowhere leading to huge expense - it is a cheap job. it needs dong, it is part of owning a car.

captainslarty said:

almost all indies buy crap parts - you buy the parts and get them to fit it, ok..

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Do not EVER do this. If you have a failure of any sort the garage can quite rightly blame the parts you supplied and the parts supplier will blame the garage. You have no guarantee whatsoever.

duncx said:

Do not EVER do this. If you have a failure of any sort the garage can quite rightly blame the parts you supplied and the parts supplier will blame the garage. You have no guarantee whatsoever.

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huh >> you think you have a guarantee from the indy... ???


Dream on young Skywalker... fitting quality parts is a must, not the crap 'they' - the average botcher - will provide you with.. but, you do as you will, each to their own and all that old chap..

Me, ? I just take it to Fiat... and get a REAL guarantee.
Setting up as an indy needs about as much brain power as being a hairdresser. (IQ in single digits).. most are probably better at a quick short back n sides gov..... - there are some good ones, but very few and far between.. trouble is - most punters couldnt tell a good 'mechanic' from a banana...

captainslarty said:

huh >> you think you have a guarantee from the indy... ???


Dream on young Skywalker... fitting quality parts is a must, not the crap 'they' - the average botcher - will provide you with.. but, you do as you will, each to their own and all that old chap..

Me, ? I just take it to Fiat... and get a REAL guarantee.
Setting up as an indy needs about as much brain power as being a hairdresser. (IQ in single digits).. most are probably better at a quick short back n sides gov..... - there are some good ones, but very few and far between.. trouble is - most punters couldnt tell a good 'mechanic' from a banana...

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We've had this 'discussion' before - there are many good independent garages out there who will do a good job and honour their guarantees.

However, regardless of your opinion of indies, by supplying your own parts you lose any chance of a guarantee and you put yourself in an imposssible legal position in the event of a failure.

duncx said:

We've had this 'discussion' before - there are many good independent garages out there who will do a good job and honour their guarantees.

However, regardless of your opinion of indies, by supplying your own parts you lose any chance of a guarantee and you put yourself in an imposssible legal position in the event of a failure.

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Rubbish (to the second part) - that is total nonsense. (and you know it!) - you only WANT and EXPECT them to guarantee their work - the fitting - if you supply the parts thats all you can expect. what is the issue ?
WHEN their CRAP parts wreck your engine (see Smurf!!!) then you have NO COME BACK AT ALL .... the onus is on you to prove the failure was down to the person - you wont - ergo - no guarantee.
You are living in dream land.. they might pay a few quid here and there - but will run a mile with and serious damage from the 5 quid timing belt / chain off ebay ...
The fact remains the average punter cannot tell a good mechanic from a banana ! - and as there are 100 crap mechanics for every good honest one, they are stuffed in reality.

captainslarty said:

Rubbish (to the second part) - that is total nonsense. (and you know it!) - you only WANT and EXPECT them to guarantee their work - the fitting - if you supply the parts thats all you can expect. what is the issue ?
WHEN their CRAP parts wreck your engine (see Smurf!!!) then you have NO COME BACK AT ALL .... the onus is on you to prove the failure was down to the person - you wont - ergo - no guarantee.
You are living in dream land.. they might pay a few quid here and there - but will run a mile with and serious damage from the 5 quid timing belt / chain off ebay ...
The fact remains the average punter cannot tell a good mechanic from a banana ! - and as there are 100 crap mechanics for every good honest one, they are stuffed in reality.

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Simple, legal FACT.

If they fit a cambelt of their supply they are legally obliged to cover their work and the belt that they have supplied. If they don't cough up you can take legal steps to pursue your claim. You may or may not win.

If they fit a cambelt of your supply they are within their rights to claim that their work was not faulty and that it was 'your' belt that was at fault. The belt supplier willl be within their rights to claim that it was incorrectly fitted, You are in a NO WIN position.

duncx said:

Simple, legal FACT.

If they fit a cambelt of their supply they are legally obliged to cover their work and the belt that they have supplied. If they don't cough up you can take legal steps to pursue your claim. You may or may not win.

If they fit a cambelt of your supply they are within their rights to claim that their work was not faulty and that it was 'your' belt that was at fault. The belt supplier willl be within their rights to claim that it was incorrectly fitted, You are in a NO WIN position.

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:yeahthat:

Personal experience of Fiat UK and their dealer network and their warrenty is useless also!

Most Easterly Pandas said:

:yeahthat:

Personal experience of Fiat UK and their dealer network and their warrenty is useless also!

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And there you have it !!



ALL warranties are useless !!! -

so buy decent parts and fit them yourself .

SORTED !! :devil:

duncx said:

Simple, legal FACT.

If they fit a cambelt of their supply they are legally obliged to cover their work and the belt that they have supplied. If they don't cough up you can take legal steps to pursue your claim. You may or may not win.

If they fit a cambelt of your supply they are within their rights to claim that their work was not faulty and that it was 'your' belt that was at fault. The belt supplier willl be within their rights to claim that it was incorrectly fitted, You are in a NO WIN position.

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Your legal understanding is worrying luke.. how do you stand, for example, if the belt fails, and they actually DO fit another replacement one (off ebay again) - what 'warranty' do you have on the replaced replacment in your simple legal facts world ??? hmmmm ? - ooops... (me thinks you have been watching too many consumer rights shows) made for entertainment -- not education note..

captainslarty said:

And there you have it !!



ALL warranties are useless !!! -

so buy decent parts and fit them yourself .

SORTED !! :devil:

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Nah, pay on credit card and see the look on their face as section 75 of the consumer credit act is enforced and their payment for the work is reversed :devil:

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Nah, pay on credit card and see the look on their face as section 75 of the consumer credit act is enforced and their payment for the work is reversed :devil:

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You can certainly try Jon, but they have 'vays and means' of getting around that.. the common one is the take your car in for a year or two until you get to the point that you just pay them... also, you have to give a reasonable case to the credit card company. Section 75 does not cover full costs either in all circumstances.
While they have your car in for 'repairs' - (as you have no right under 75 to demand a different repairer if they offere to do it after being contacted by the agency) they can make darn sure you will pay more in the long run..
It is like abusing a waiter and not expecting htem to wipe their bell end on your Pizza... :devil:

captainslarty said:

Your legal understanding is worrying luke.. how do you stand, for example, if the belt fails, and they actually DO fit another replacement one (off ebay again) - what 'warranty' do you have on the replaced replacment in your simple legal facts world ??? hmmmm ? - ooops... (me thinks you have been watching too many consumer rights shows) made for entertainment -- not education note..

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My legal understanding is clear and sound

Why don't you just admit that your advice to supply your own parts for a garage to fit for you is COMPLETELY wrong?

duncx said:

My legal understanding is clear and sound

Why don't you just admit that your advice to supply your own parts for a garage to fit for you is COMPLETELY wrong?

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I have fully answered it young Luke, they are responsible for their work. period. not the parts. Thats it... plain n simple...

Now, answer the little question about the replacement replacements ?
hmmm ? - you havent said what warranty you have on the original work - so I doubt you can get yer head around this....
Anne Robinson has a lot to answer for, whole generations of misguided ludites.