its a 05 model.
its error codes is p1191
and p1197

it starts and runs when use of start gas.. and can be driven but it does cut to limp mode fast! and these codes come up.. can monitor pressure and expected pessure in the rail and it is at idle around 250bars but expected 350.. it gets worse at higher pressure... like over 200bars of difference.

Injectors?

p1191 fuel rail pressure sensor incorrect signal, try New fuel filter or pump
P1197 fuel rail pressure monitoring /circuit malfunction (possible wiring fault)
When was fuel filter last changed? Could be causing both fault codes if dirty and not allowing fuel to pressure rail.
Hope this helps.

i have checked injectors.. all returning the same amount..

thanks i have the definitions already but thanks anyway

Your fault sounds like a rail pressure one OR a problem with the rail pressure sensor.
You've two codes pointing that way and it failing to start unaided and tripping limp when it does go.

You've checked the injector returns, what did they return and over what sort of period?

Have you checked for fuel leaks?
All the unions, pipes etc from pump to injectors, also the seals and unions of the injector returns back to the pump.

Check the pump, the plate looking cover can often leak and can be fixed fairly easily.

Tip out the fuel filter into a clean clear bowl and check the fuel and filter for swarf.

I'm only familiar with Delphi systems though I believe the latest Bosch is similar, but usually the PCM will only fire the injectors if it see enough rpm from the crank speed sensor AND enough rail pressure, which I think is somewhere around the 200 bar or so at crank.

At idle it is somewhere like 250 or so.

Typical maximums are somewhere between 1600 -2000bar.

You can also back probe the rail pressure sensor and check it's working.
One wire will be ground.
Another live feed (5volts constant)
The other the linear signal wire.

This linear signal should typically be:
Key on, engine off 0.5 volts
Idle 1.2 to 1.5 volts
Snap WOT around 3.7 plus.

I'm not sure if this rail has a pressure limiter valve as well that bleeds off excess pressure back to the pump/tank.
They are usually at the other end of the rail from the sensor and typically start to open at around 2300 bar.

Take a look at this
http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~oisin/Dersler/Dersnotlari/0653611/dinjection.pdf

ok i didnt messure what they returned only that they returned about the same amount..

yah i have had some leaking form the high pressure pump before and that was fixed more than once with new rubber O rings.. normaly works just fine.

no leak from any pips.. run without airbox so can see it all.

I can se the ECU is asking for 350bars at idle but it only gets about 250bars. i also had a special tunings box where i could read what volts the sensor was giving (not mounted now because of trying to locate error)

did change fuel filter not long ago..

I font know if its a safety valve.. its in the end of the rail and is normally referred to as a high pressure fuel regulator (the pump is of the CP1 where the pressure is regulated else were not in the intake of the pump as the later CP3(with perzo injectors).

it sounds like a car without fuel when i crank it to start..

The rpm sensor is working it reads RPM in the ecu just fine.

Goudrons said:

Your fault sounds like a rail pressure one OR a problem with the rail pressure sensor.
You've two codes pointing that way and it failing to start unaided and tripping limp when it does go.

You've checked the injector returns, what did they return and over what sort of period?

Have you checked for fuel leaks?
All the unions, pipes etc from pump to injectors, also the seals and unions of the injector returns back to the pump.

Check the pump, the plate looking cover can often leak and can be fixed fairly easily.

Tip out the fuel filter into a clean clear bowl and check the fuel and filter for swarf.

I'm only familiar with Delphi systems though I believe the latest Bosch is similar, but usually the PCM will only fire the injectors if it see enough rpm from the crank speed sensor AND enough rail pressure, which I think is somewhere around the 200 bar or so at crank.

At idle it is somewhere like 250 or so.

Typical maximums are somewhere between 1600 -2000bar.

You can also back probe the rail pressure sensor and check it's working.
One wire will be ground.
Another live feed (5volts constant)
The other the linear signal wire.

This linear signal should typically be:
Key on, engine off 0.5 volts
Idle 1.2 to 1.5 volts
Snap WOT around 3.7 plus.

I'm not sure if this rail has a pressure limiter valve as well that bleeds off excess pressure back to the pump/tank.
They are usually at the other end of the rail from the sensor and typically start to open at around 2300 bar.

Take a look at this
http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~oisin/Dersler/Dersnotlari/0653611/dinjection.pdf

Click to expand...

As I said, I'm not familiar with the Bosch system, I'm stuck with the crappy Delphi system.
But from what I read, cranking pressure should peak quickly to around the 400 bar mark.
This then drops to around 350 at idle.
Snap WOT should have it peaking around 1600bar very quickly.

If the injectors aren't overly returning and dropping the pressure off, something else is effecting rail pressure, that's the reason for P1191.

Leaks are the obvious reason, not just outwardly, but air drawing in before the pump or on the return will do it.
I once had a cracked lift pipe in the tank that sucked in enough air to cause mayhem.

The pump might not be able to generate the required pressure due to wear or it breaking up.
Checking the filter and what's returned into the housing for metal/swarf will indicate this.
But why would it cause a P1197 fuel rail pressure monitoring /circuit malfunction?

From what I read the fuel rail does have a pressure limiter valve on it.
This is to protect the injectors from excess pressure.
(the rail should have 6 unions, one to feed the rail from the hP pump, 4 out to feed the injectors and one out on the limiter valve)
At the far end of the rail on the right.
If that has failed, it'll leak off the pressure.

This I now believe is the reason behind P1197, the PCM isn't getting the required signal from this limiter solenoid.
It expects to see a certain return voltage from it, it knows the rpm and hence the pump is working, but it's not getting a believeable signal if the valve has failed.
If it has failed, it'll certainly reduce the rail pressure if it's failed open.

Can your diagnostic tool scan the data from this limiter valve?

The error is still present :-( have changed the fuel rail pressure regulator.. no difference..
logged this error standing still reving the engine.. the car did not go into limp on this error but want to datalog when driving insted.

tryed to change the pressure sensor.. no differance.. seems to run fine when cold but when warm its more lightly to do the error.. and does not always do it at specific rpm or load..?

Hello, everybody!

Same problem here, on a z13dt Corsa (same engine like italian 1.3 JTD).

I am sure that these cars have and have not a lot of common things, but your weird problem of fuel pressure problem strikes in both countries...





I placed in above graph on x-axis the time measured in seconds , from 0 to 26 seconds , and the Y-axis MPa pressure . Pink stripe means common rail pressure and for 13 to 14 seconds remain around 11-12 MPa ( 110-120 bar) ... Only after 14 seconds, the engine starts (>150 bar) .


I suspect it would be :
a) high pressure pump ;
b) pressure regulator on common rail.


I do not see any error on the board desk, but it happened twice while climbing a hill with 5 persons - stopped engine. Errors occurred :


a) P1191 - Rail Pressure Range / Performance ( 0B )
b ) P0093 - High Pressure Malfunction Diagnosis ( 08)


15,000 kilometers worked perfectly , and when they came heat / temperatures over 10 degrees Celsius , it takes 30 seconds to start . I changed the oil filter, clean it, oil comes on the ramp...


I ask an opinion...

Ah! It only starts when I spray some... starting spray.

m88 said:

Hello, everybody!

15,000 kilometers worked perfectly , and when they came heat / temperatures over 10 degrees Celsius , it takes 30 seconds to start . I changed the oil filter, clean it, oil comes on the ramp...


I ask an opinion...

Ah! It only starts when I spray some... starting spray.

Click to expand...

are you saying it worked perfectly in winter temps,
but now in warmer temps it takes time,

I had the opposite in a Marea JTD ' year 2000,

worked fine after 20+ 'C,
at colder temps the enigine mangement would stay immibilised.., :bang:
it was a bad relay box,
swapped out and away it went..,
listen " ecoute" for a click of a relay..!!

good luck

Thank you, varese, for your intervention!

Exactly, the small engine started exceptionally in winter, and now... problems.

I will check again the relays, but... I think it is fuel regulator / high pressure pump, but I will need 60-70% assurance that it is the correct part. No money on my mind...

Trying to install TIS/Autodata, but it does not work on 64 bit.