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Technical Vibration at ca. 1500 rpm in low gears

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Technical Vibration at ca. 1500 rpm in low gears

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ojobojo

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Mar 9, 2013
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Hello,

I am coming with a small concern here. Hopefully you guys can shed some light on possible causes.

Recently I've noticed that my Panda 1.2 Dynamic starts to vibrate audibly at around the 1500RPM mark especially noticeable in 1st and 2nd gear when accelerating more rapidly or at upward incline and when the engine is still cool.

The vibrations usually subside during longer travels and they don't really appear at higher gears (maybe 3rd but very slightly). Also when I accelerate very gently there is no audible vibration at all. When I shift and I keep the engine at above 1500RPM there is nothing as well.

So the problem mostly occurs when setting off at roundabouts, traffic lights, exiting parking lots and other places where the car gets in low RPM in low gears.

***
One more thing which might be a clue:

In 2nd sometimes when i release my foot from the gas pedal when going downhill the car starts jumping/stuttering and i've also noticed it is around the 1500 mark. I reckon it could be connected but just hope it is my lack of driving experience ;]

Thanks
 
Goudrons said:
Clutch judder perhaps.
This usually shows up when cold and the clutch is worn or contaminated with oil.
Click to expand...

Thanks Goudrons,

Do you know of a way i can test or check if it is indeed the clutch?
 
ojobojo said:
Thanks Goudrons,

Do you know of a way i can test or check if it is indeed the clutch?
Click to expand...

may sound realy silly but check the lower engine mounting, they are really bad on punto's and i have heard are similar problem on pandas, Its very hard to tell so i wont tell you to try rocking engine but what i suggest you do is get someone to sit in car start engine and put in first gear with handbrake on rev to about 2000 revs and lift clutch to biting point - if top of engine moves back more than a inch i would have a look at bottom mounting to check the rubbers my punto used to vibrate and judder when i set off till i changed mounting
 
When cold,
start it up,
stick it in gear (3rd or 4th),
increase rpm to normal pulling away speed,
let clutch out with handbrake still on. (on well tight)

It should bite and stall.

If it bites and judders/slips, you've an issue.
A quick look under the car at the bell housing, (the connection between engine and gearbox) see if anything is dripping off it as a leaking rear crankseal will weep oil on the clutch and drip out of there.

It could be just worn, how many miles on it?
Does it bite high or low on the pedal?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the instructions guys. I just got around to checking her and it seems like she performed normally.

There was no excessive movement of the engine when it stalled from 1st at least to my untrained eyes. A slight judder and clean stall.

When I tested wiht 3rd and 4th gear with the handbrake i released the clutch and it bit pretty high up and almost immediately stalled with no significant judder.


The car has 95 300 KM now. I got it at 82K and have only changed the oil for peace of mind and had to replace the front two tyres as they were wearing from the inside. The bolts were regulated in the garage so now they are ok as well.

And as i mentioned it bit quite up. Maybe a few cms before full release of the pedal. I am not sure what that means though ;]

Yesterday evening i went for a couple of short drives and there were no issues so i thought it could just be my inexperience or driving style causing this (shifting or setting off at lower RPM although i try to keep her at around 2000RPM at least if i am more aggressive with the gas but inevitably there are situation where it drops to 1200-1300 and then i try to be gentler with the acceleration)
 
ojobojo said:
Thanks for the instructions guys. I just got around to checking her and it seems like she performed normally.


Yesterday evening i went for a couple of short drives and there were no issues so i thought it could just be my inexperience or driving style causing this (shifting or setting off at lower RPM although i try to keep her at around 2000RPM at least if i am more aggressive with the gas but inevitably there are situation where it drops to 1200-1300 and then i try to be gentler with the acceleration)
Click to expand...

I find mine will judder if the revs are low setting off, different driving style and a few more revs (2k ) then sets off lovely and smooth anything less and it does judder
hope this helps
 
They do wear the inside edges of the front tyres a little.
I guess when you say the "bolts were regulated" by a garage, I presume you mean it had the wheel alignment checked and reset.

Most tyre centres will be able to do this for you, though some employ apes on peanuts that still can't set one properly!

These Pandas are noted for the suspension wishbone bushing wearing or splitting, which will also spoil the front wheel alignment and wears the tyres unevenly.
At 82k, if they haven't been done, they're probably due for inspection/replacement.


I suspect the judder is probably due to a bit of inexperience.
These have pretty light pressure plates holding the friction plate to the flywheel, so they won't thank you for sending a load of unnecessary torque through it, particularly when cold.

It doesn't sound like your clutch is on it's last legs, but it isn't unheard of that one needs changing at that sort of mileage, it all depends on how it's been used and abused.

Usual signs of a clutch going are:
Difficulty getting in gear, grinding into first/reverse first thing in the morning and taking effort to move it into second.

Pedal biting very low with no feel (clutch works like a switch)

Heavy clutch pedal that feels like you can't push it down far enough to disengage (see grinding)
.
Slipping, so when you put you foot down, the rpm climbs but the speed doesn't (the test you did with the handbrake on shows this up) usually when warm or on hills or loaded up with fat mates.

Judder, usually a sign there's some oil or hydraulic fluid on the friction plate, somethings leaking, but could also be due to a flywheel or pressure plate face wearing unevenly, usually due to heat (riding the clutch on hills or at the lights)

Some of these alone don't necessarily point to wear, but maybe a hydraulic system issue.
Yours seems to bite and no slip, but keep an eye on it's operating and treat it well.
 
Last edited:
I had a very similar vibration in my panda 4x4. Only heard it a low speeds when taking off to work in the mornings etc. I got someone to sit on the back of the car and see if they could locate which bit of the car the vibration was coming from while I was driving. Turns out it was really simple. It was the spare wheel in the boot was a bit loose and was causing a vibrating sound. You only noticed it at low speeds in the low gears because the rest of the time I was going fast enough that road noise and engine noise overpowered it. Hope yours is something that simple!
 
jon1612 said:
I find mine will judder if the revs are low setting off, different driving style and a few more revs (2k ) then sets off lovely and smooth anything less and it does judder
hope this helps
Click to expand...

cheers, i think it must be (hopefully) something very similar with what's going on with mine
 
euroben said:
I had a very similar vibration in my panda 4x4. Only heard it a low speeds when taking off to work in the mornings etc. I got someone to sit on the back of the car and see if they could locate which bit of the car the vibration was coming from while I was driving. Turns out it was really simple. It was the spare wheel in the boot was a bit loose and was causing a vibrating sound. You only noticed it at low speeds in the low gears because the rest of the time I was going fast enough that road noise and engine noise overpowered it. Hope yours is something that simple!
Click to expand...

thanks, i'll have a look at the spare tire and check it out to see if it is loose. i suppose the build quality in some places can be a bit weak and certain non essentials can start sounding scary ;]

it's my first car so i can be a bit preoccupied
 
Goudrons said:
They do wear the inside edges of the front tyres a little.
I guess when you say the "bolts were regulated" by a garage, I presume you mean it had the wheel alignment checked and reset.

Most tyre centres will be able to do this for you, though some employ apes on peanuts that still can't set one properly!

These Pandas are noted for the suspension wishbone bushing wearing or splitting, which will also spoil the front wheel alignment and wears the tyres unevenly.
At 82k, if they haven't been done, they're probably due for inspection/replacement.


I suspect the judder is probably due to a bit of inexperience.
These have pretty light pressure plates holding the friction plate to the flywheel, so they won't thank you for sending a load of unnecessary torque through it, particularly when cold.

It doesn't sound like your clutch is on it's last legs, but it isn't unheard of that one needs changing at that sort of mileage, it all depends on how it's been used and abused.

Usual signs of a clutch going are:
Difficulty getting in gear, grinding into first/reverse first thing in the morning and taking effort to move it into second.

Pedal biting very low with no feel (clutch works like a switch)

Heavy clutch pedal that feels like you can't push it down far enough to disengage (see grinding)
.
Slipping, so when you put you foot down, the rpm climbs but the speed doesn't (the test you did with the handbrake on shows this up) usually when warm or on hills or loaded up with fat mates.

Judder, usually a sign there's some oil or hydraulic fluid on the friction plate, somethings leaking, but could also be due to a flywheel or pressure plate face wearing unevenly, usually due to heat (riding the clutch on hills or at the lights)

Some of these alone don't necessarily point to wear, but maybe a hydraulic system issue.
Yours seems to bite and no slip, but keep an eye on it's operating and treat it well.
Click to expand...

This is some great info goudrons! Thanks a lot.

It makes more sense now practically. I used to be more hesitant with the clutch earlier on when I got it but now I got used to it and almost got rid of the bad habit of riding it in most occasions.

I suppose as the others suggested if I keep it in good revs and play nicely with the clutch I will see if the noise and vibration persists. Apart from this there are no other tell tale signs.

Ah yes, you are completely right. It was the wheel alignment that got reset at the tyre centre (to me they appeared as threaded bolts between the chassis and and the tyre ;). I check the threads now on the front tyres and there doesn't seem to be irregular wear so I hope they've done a decent job.
 
Last edited:
Bit of a bump on an old topic.

Our 1.2 Panda (50k miles) always had quite a judder/kangaroo if your weren't careful.

This was helped somewhat by changing the bottom and top (cambelt side) engine mounts.

However as it failed the MOT on wishbones, we got them changed, and the judder has almost completely gone now.
 
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