Hullo everyone,

I've recently bought a Panda Twinair Lounge, and I think it's a great car. However, the stop/start doesn't work (which I gather is not too unusual).

I took it to the dealer in Edinburgh, and they've told me there's "nothing wrong with", despite it not working for them when they road tested it.

They told me when I booked it in for checking that the system will only work when lots of criteria have been met, such as shutting the door and putting seatbelt on before starting etc, which I have tried to no avail.

I don't drive with aircon or radio on as I'm used to cars with at least six cylinders or several turbos (335i was my last runabout!) and I'm enjoying the challenge of getting the fuel consumption as high as possible.

The garage stated that the battery is probably not charged as there was a count in the engine diagnostics of stop/start failing 4,000+ times.

And the garage has said that I need to get a car battery charger and leave it on for 24 hours.

I did ask what the alternator in a car is for if not to charge the battery, and he said the Twinair is fitted with an intelligent alternator, my grumpy reply of not that bl**dy intelligent if it doesn't charge it with me driving 20 miles a day.


The Poor AA man who was in the car park thought the garage dude was talking pants, and I'm inclined to agree.

I wanted to check with people who know what they're talking about before I call Fiat to complain.


And they said the car had been washed, which it hasn't.

Thanks for taking the time to read my incoherent rumblings, and a big thank you for any help you can give.

My wife's 500 has the same issue but she is only driving 5 miles a day, so not enough charge is generated. A trickle charger was suggested.

They're talking b----cks, though you don't say whether you bought the car new or not so the battery could have been down a bit initially, as you noted, the charging system's supposed to deal with that. It's not working properly so the garage must sort it, rather than trying to fob you off with a lot of meaningless nonsense.

(By the way, this thread's in the wrong section.)

Wrong panda section I think mate

Seen this before on another make/model.

The battery/starter motor/alternator/ECU are revised to allow this "Stop/Start" business.

It takes a fair electrical "whack" to start a car, starter motor, firing the ignition, fuel pump, fuel injection etc all take up amps.

(how Honda do this on their EFI off road bikes with no battery is amazing, all for a single kick of the kick starter)

These Stop/Sart systems will protect charging system if it thinks there's not enough juice in the battery, so it will switch off the Stop/Start until it has what it considers enough to restart.

It's common these issues start becoming appearent in the cold weather or if there's a sudden drop in temps.

Batteries don't like the cold and their output can drop considerably because of it (Ipods aren't a big seller with Eskimos because of this!)

Alternators work harder as we use more lights/heated screens/heater blowers etc more of the time.

Also the damp air can cause the alternator belt to slip ever so slightly, reducing it's output.

Short trips tend to weaken batteries as they never fully recharge.

DLR's won't help either.

Add two or more of these together, the stop/start is likely to give up the ghost by it's own accord and keep you running, as the ECU is programmed to not leave you stalled at the lights without enough battery to restart.

Sort of explain why they suggest trickle charging.
Though I would hope they tested the battery condition and alternator output before suggesting it.

If it's under warranty, you could insist on a new battery and see if the issue improves, but it's likely the cold snap and short trips may bring you back to square one again sooner or later.

I guess I should add that manufacturer see this stop/start system as a way to meet European emission regulations cheaply rather than more expensive systems.

It seems the benefits to the owners don't last quite as long as the benefits to the manufacturers and the over effect on emissions might be worse than expected as it burns more fuel trying to replace power in the battery quickly.

Better battery technology (ultracapacitors which manufacturers have already deemed to expensive) and kinectic energy recovery (same again) are needed to make the system work properly.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/the-problem-with-start-stop-systems/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/the-shocking-truth-about-start-stop-systems/

babbo_umbro said:

They're talking b----cks, though you don't say whether you bought the car new or not so the battery could have been down a bit initially, as you noted, the charging system's supposed to deal with that. It's not working properly so the garage must sort it, rather than trying to fob you off with a lot of meaningless nonsense.

(By the way, this thread's in the wrong section.)

Click to expand...

Quite right - if the car is new, then this should have been covered by the pre-delivery inspection. It's not like dealers aren't aware of the battery issues regarding Stop/Start - well, at least I hope not anyway!

As for telling you to buy a charger - not terrible advice by any means, but where is the customer service here? You've presumably paid a fair load of money for your car and it obviously isn't working properly, so the dealer should really be trying to sort it out.

I would also suggest getting in touch with Fiat Customer Services. I read an excellent post by someone the other day (can't remember where); if you have a problem or just want to pass on your thanks for excellent service received from a dealer, it's all stuff that they want to hear about. I think they would definitely love to hear what you've been told by your dealer...

And yes, this one should be in the Panda 2012 section. Hopefully someone will be able to move it over, then we will be able to help from there!

YES - wrong section..,
BUT owning a Punto TA myself I KNOW what a frustratingly "unreliable" thing it can be, charging the battery ONCE may be worthwhile though !,
anyway there are now a hundred Stop/start threads on here , all basically going over the same old stuff time + again,
here is one i've JUST found , that's a little more helpful,,

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/332319-strange-start-stop-issues-need-help.html

new one on me..!!,
Charlie

Hullo again,

Sorry for the wrong section. Just can't get the newbies these days...

When I booked the car into fiat, they told me how it should work, and I tried that, and it didn't. It didn't even work when they road tested it. Yet they still send it away broken back to the customer telling them to fix it themselves. (plus the Bluetooth connection is dropping calls, they didn't fix that, they just gave me a printout with blueandme.net written on it and told me to check for a software update). They were however very happy to take £240 for a new key.

I called Fiat customer services yesterday, they were great. They're going to contact the dealership, get their side of the story, and then speak to their technical people to see if that seems legitimate, which I and others on here seem to doubt.

It was registered march 2012, I bought it in august this year. It was a demonstrator vehicle.


Will let you know what Fiat themselves say, but I probably won't be taking my car back to Arnold Clark Fiat in Sighthill. They proudly boast about washing and vacuuming every car, yet didn't!

Service people are useless. Parts guy (Keith I think) was excellent. Coffee is nice though.

I've tried everything there, I don't usually drive with the radio on, or rear demister or anything really.

I think it is just a faulty battery or alternator or goblin or whatever witchcraft powers it.

Uglyscotsguy said:

I've tried everything there, I don't usually drive with the radio on, or rear demister or anything really.

I think it is just a faulty battery or alternator or goblin or whatever witchcraft powers it.

Click to expand...

was it a UK stock car.. or did you order from the Factory..,
UK stock ones can have US batteries from being parked-up so long,

mine was stock and "has it's moments..!!"
Charlie

I contacted Fiat last week to see if they can check if Arnold Clark's claims that charging the battery is sufficient to fix this issue.

They got back to me Wednesday (4th working day later) to say they've contacted the dealer who have told them what they told me.

Fiat did not contact any of their own technical people, or anybody else.

They have taken the Arnold clark dealerships technical opinion. As anyone with any experience of Arnold Clark will confirm, their technicians are usually tyre fitters, with sometimes printed instructions to follow. They generally don't have a clue what they're talking about.


The thing that I have trouble grasping the concept of...

If the battery is not charged enough to restart the car, then the alternator or battery must be faulty as I drive 20 miles a day, half at motorway speeds, and the rest on uncontested city roads (start work at either 4am or noon, so out with rush hour). Don't have the radio on as it's garbage at that time if the day. No air con needed, blah blah. The stop/start should work.


If I go and buy a trickle charger, what's to say that in a week or month or whatever I'll need to charge it again.

The stop/start didn't work after a 380 mile drive back from the dealership at a steady constant 70 (give or take 20).


If the alternator can't get the battery fully charged after all that then there is something wrong.


And it turns out Fiat customer service is just a message relaying service.

back to previous question,
did you order the car ? - or was it in group stock..??,

the group stock cars will all have poor batteries,
LIKE MINE

Uglyscotsguy said:

If the alternator can't get the battery fully charged after all that then there is something wrong.

Click to expand...

I think it's highly unlikely there is anything wrong with the alternator. The car's on-board charging system is not designed to recover a deeply discharged battery.

Uglyscotsguy said:

If I go and buy a trickle charger, what's to say that in a week or month or whatever I'll need to charge it again.

Click to expand...

A trickle charger will not help you.

Only an intelligent pulse charger can do what is required; some, but not all, deeply discharged batteries can be recovered in this way.

Whether the battery has been permanently damaged by being left in a discharged state, only time will tell.

The supplying dealership should remove the battery from the car and condition it using an appropriate charger. If that fails to resolve the problem, they should replace the battery without further question.

Uglyscotsguy said:

If the battery is not charged enough to restart the car, then the alternator or battery must be faulty

Click to expand...

It's not that it won't physically start the car, just out of the SS tolerances to allow it to cut out.

jrkitching said:

I think it's highly unlikely there is anything wrong with the alternator. The car's on-board charging system is not designed to recover a deeply discharged battery.



A trickle charger will not help you.

Only an intelligent pulse charger can do what is required; some, but not all, deeply discharged batteries can be recovered in this way.

Click to expand...

:yeahthat: basically.

Had same problem on my Panda TA - dealer fixed it immediately by changing battery under warranty. No problems now.