I just checked the levels on my '04 multijet panda and noticed the expansion tank is full of black oil... I dipped the stick and there's no sign of water in the oil.. can anyone help diagnose this...

thanks Chris...

Almost definitely a head gasket. There are no other ways for oil to penetrate the coolant... unless someone wants to correct me? Did you check oil filler cap for mayo-like residue? The water pump and radiator will be contaminated and will need a thorough flushing through with a degreasing cleaner.

It's very lucky if the sump hasn't been contaminated, but still strongly recommend that when you drain and flush the cooling system, use some engine flush and change the oil too.

I know some people would swear by K-Seal when it comes to minor head gasket failures, but other's don't.. I've used it before, and it did exactly what it said on the tin (that was a Rover 45 1.6, never used in a fiat)

As James said the most likely cause is a head gasket.
The oil is escaping into the cooling system, so your heater matrix and radiator will shortly become blocked and then the engine overheats and can fail catastrophically.
Best to not use it, but if you really have to (ie to get it to a garage) then take it slow and watch the temperature gauge.

K-seal is designed to stop the coolant leaking out, so in this case it's not suitable as the oil is leaking into the coolant.

I thought the MJ engine was almost bulletproof, has it had any abuse or megamiles?

As above - head gasket failure. Happened to me on an old Audi 80 diesel with the same symptom. You'll need to flush thoroughly the entire cooling system and engine. Just because there are no signs of water in the oil do not assume it's not there.

Thanks Guys..
Took it into my local garage tonight, they're going to flush it and try some sealer.. don't think it's been abused, don't really no it's history, bought it from a dealer in the midlands and it has about 90,000 miles on it.

Any idea how much replacing a head gasket should cost..? this couldn't have come at a worst time... I looked into doing it myself but it looks like you need an army of special tools...things have changed a lot since i used to work on my old mini..

Chris..

Vivid workshop system says 5.4 hours - not counting sorting the mess in the cooling system. I wouldn't want sealer going round the system with oil sludge potentially blocking the waterways. It'll have no chance of sealing and a good opportunity to make things worse.

Has the coolant tank been clean for a long time ?
If you have only owned the car for a short time it is possible that the head gasket has already been done and the muck in the tank is residue that was not cleaned out of the radiator, etc. Its almost impossible to fully clean a cooling system.
On the down side, sealants are for stopping the coolant leaking out, it won't stop the oil leaking into the coolant. Keep us posted on how you get on.

Diesels do tend to blow oil in the coolant and pressurise the the cooling system up when the head gaskets go, rather than the other way around, they run much higher compression ratios.

williamsdirect said:

Thanks Guys..
Took it into my local garage tonight, they're going to flush it and try some sealer......

Click to expand...

But have they discussed a pressure test on the engine? Not up on diesels, so I'm unceratin if it applies, but I'd look to flush the coolant out first in case it's old residue as already stated and ask about getting a pressure test done - might just save you a lot of money/woes - adding "sealant" sounds like a Bad Thing, no control over what gets sealed and where.

Goudrons said:

Diesels do tend to blow oil in the coolant and pressurise the the cooling system up when the head gaskets go, rather than the other way around, they run much higher compression ratios.

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Yeah, my 406 did its head gasket twice and not once did I find any coolant in the oil.

Funny thing that Maxi, but I found out this diesel/coolant trait with a diesel Pug.

Seems it's not helped by the fact their cooling systems are "barely adequate" (not my quote) and they're a pain to bleed as they thought it wise to fit the expansion bottles very low on some models, leading to lots of air lock!!

To help the poster, forget added crap to the system, get it tested.

Hi Guys..

Spoke to the main dealers service manager last night, he just happens to be my neighbour, I asked him his opinion and to price the head gasket repair. He phoned me this morning to say it was a 7hr job and with parts would come to £700.. but then he added that it was more likely the oil cooler, they have replaced quite a few in the past but hardly any head gaskets so that was the more likely cause and at £200 for the cooler a bit cheaper i think, (hope).

I then phoned my local garage who have the car and told them the story but they had already worked it out and were heading down the oil cooler route as we spoke..

I asked them to pressure test the cooler once it was off to confirm that was the source of the contamination but apparently thats not possible.

Anyway, oil cooler is ordered and we shall see how it goes, needs a good flush, when the rad drain plug was removed they said it was just like taking the sump plug out....

Chris...

Sounds like good news, but also very unexpected as I can't find anything on oil coolers on this forum, and most problems have been at least mentioned.
Even more odd is I can't find an oil cooler on ePer, I've looked on lubrication and cooling, I'd be happy for someone to prove me wrong and find one.
Could it me an aftermarket oil cooler ?
Now if I'd bought myself a Haynes manual like I was going to..................

Think it's listed as a Heat Exchanger and it's part of the oil filter housing.
Seems there are three types, with three part numbers.
73500434
55193743
55197216

I haven't a diesel Panda ours is petrol, but my other car is diesel and it has a finned part on the back of the filter housing.
It's also got a small feed pipe from the water pump to the oil filter housing with a little thermostat in line.
(often the little 'stat sticks open on my other car and leads to a very slow warm up)

I guess it pumps coolant around the filter housing when the engine/oil reaches a certain temp, if something is knackered inside it would account for the oil being pumped into the coolant.

This is the little sucker
http://img.tootoo.com/mytootoo/upload/49/491709/product/491709_c1aa71f3637e61215d6025ff45acc3f4.jpg

Thanks Goudron, I've now been able to find it in ePer with your help.
ePer shows the part as 1 and calls it a heat exchanger as you say, but it shows the whole oil filter assembly.
The heat exchanger part is recognisable attached to the front of the housing.
When I change my oil next I'll have a nosey around, although it looks well hidden as it's got a cover over it.
I'm not sure whether its function is to warm the oil up from cold quicker or to stop the oil getting too hot, but there again maybe I'm just getting a bit over-enthusiastic.

I'll bare that in mind if I get a dump of oil in my water

FPT tend to call the oil cooler and EGR cooler heat exchanger - but you have already found that out

There are 2 oil filters for the MJ - I wonder if the whole assembly is different - with 2 oil cooler types :chin: one more prone to failure perhaps...

I haven't worked out which either Richard, but can have a guess what it's meant to do!

I wrote earlier, my Jag diesel has a pipe from water pump to oil filter housing with a thermostat on the top of the pipe.
The housing is finned, so it points to cooling what's in there.
So it opens when the coolant is hot to let water around the filter housing.
So if it's meant to help warm up, it'd be no use as the coolant can't get to it until the thermostat opens.
Also, that little thermostat is iffy and can leak coolant past before it's meant to open, this leads to cooler running and a longer warm up time.

So I'd hazard a guess it's to help cool the oil.

..got the panda back yesterday.. they have replaced the oilcooler (heat exchanger) and flushed the system out 3 or 4 times and used the car over the weekend, just been out and checked the coolant tank and no signs of oil contamination so fingers crossed she's sorted....

Thanks to everyone for your input..

Chris...

good that it fixed the problem!

regarding 2 different oil filters.. .thats so stupid.. you cant know until you have pulled it from the car.. eper cant tell you what of the 2 filters it is.