I am taking my dealer to court and representing myself. My dear little Panda vehicle having done 71,359 miles needs a new engine and despite me taking my vehicle into the dealership on several occasions with a misfire they failed to diagnose the problem until my car had gone out of the mileage warranty. They are now saying the problem (a leak via the valve on a cylinder caused a decrease in compression reulting in the misfire and now irreversable damage) is fair wear and tear on a vehicle of this mileage (71,359). (The vehicle has been fully serviced from new as per the warranty agreement.)

I am looking for as many Panda owners with vehicles over 71,359 miles whose vehicles are still going strong so I can refute their claim that this is expected wear and tear on a vehicle of this mileage. I have already had an independent assessor who has called around many dealership and who has said this problem is very unusual on a Panda but I need the factual proof now.

If you would be so kind as to email me at [email protected] with your details and how many Miles your Panda has done I wont need you to come to court! but I can then print off the emails and use them to bolster my case in court. I have already been without my car for over 4 months and would love to have my little car back asap.

If you have any questions please ask away.

Thank you

FannyAdams

You don't say how old your Panda is, which is important I'd have thought. On the basis of the little information you give I'd be inclined to think that your best course of action would be to get the engine replaced and get on with it. I'm a great believer in pursuing claims against providers - I tell them from the outset that they need to know that I won't give in and I won't go away, and through sheer doggedness I've pursued insurance companies and solicitors till they've stumped up but I just get the impression that you're on a loser.

Hope I'm wrong.

what engine do you have in yours? it might help to find other with the same engine in another fiat as well...

just a thought

Good luck, but my '57 100hp has only done 27K and the '05 eleganza has only done 17K....

I did get 144K out of our 1.1 Punto though!

Babbo Umbro....I may be on to a loser but for the sake of an extra £100 to take this to court on top of what may be £3500 for a new engine, is really neither here nor there.

The garage that didnt diagnose the fault at 48,000k had had the car back into their dealership on no less than 7 occasions with the misfire fault and failed to spot the engine problem. I didnt put all the history in my first post as it is looooong so I think I have a better case than it appears.

The car is a June '06 Fiat Eleganza 1.2 so would love to hear from anyone who still has one that works.

Grazie mille!

FannyAdams said:

I may be on to a loser but for the sake of an extra £100 to take this to court on top of what may be £3500 for a new engine, is really neither here nor there.

Click to expand...

I just read your other post and it says:

FannyAdams said:

After 3 weeks of discussion with Fiat warranty they offered to pay most of the repair and I would pay £900 (for a new engine).

Click to expand...

How come it's gone up to £3500....?

labour? plus all the times the cars been back wards and forwards (7 times?) for a diagnosis... just a guess, but these things add up pretty quickly

FannyAdams said:

Babbo Umbro....I may be on to a loser but for the sake of an extra £100 to take this to court on top of what may be £3500 for a new engine, is really neither here nor there.

The garage that didnt diagnose the fault at 48,000k had had the car back into their dealership on no less than 7 occasions with the misfire fault and failed to spot the engine problem. I didnt put all the history in my first post as it is looooong so I think I have a better case than it appears.

The car is a June '06 Fiat Eleganza 1.2 so would love to hear from anyone who still has one that works.

Grazie mille!

Click to expand...

Well I wish you all the best.

If the car's been out of commission for four months that implies it was just under three years old - which helps a bit - but you're doing about twice the average annual mileage - which doesn't help at all. Was it the same garage that failed to diagnose the fault over the period - presumably about a year - in which you did 23,000-plus miles? A burnt valve is one of the easiest problems to diagnose as it just requires a compression check - I think this is the nub of the issue - you have the right to expect them to be competent enough to trace faults and this one is much simpler than most, especially the numerous electrical/electronic faults that bedevil modern cars. Did you write to the garage in the interim, after any of those seven failed attempts to have them find the fault, describing the fault and the fact that they had failed to diagnose and correct it? Anything on paper puts the wind up the opposition - presumably you have invoices for each occasion when you tried to get the fault traced, with mileages on them, which they have to explain away.

Has the engine been stripped down at all, or are you just depending on the same people who failed to rectify things to tell you what's wrong this time? I think the 1.2 engine is quite susceptible to head gasket problems - the 1.1 version certainly is - but valve problems are very rare these days.

I hate to say it, but I assume the fact that you're female is a contributory factor as well - we're fortunate to have a really good local garage that we've used for nearly twenty years and that my wife feels happy taking her car to (not a Fiat dealer unfortunately) but I think they're still an exception.

ThisBitterPill said:

I just read your other post and it says:



How come it's gone up to £3500....?

Click to expand...

This bitter pill....When I went back to Fiat to take up their £900 offer, they backtracked and as I didnt have the offer on paper (at this point all the contact had been over the phone with the warranty team) I didnt have a leg to stand on.

BabboUmbro....

It was the same garage that failed to identify the fault...they didnt ever carry out a pressure test until after it went out of the warranty...yet at 48,000 found oil in the throttle body....and cleaned it out and gave me the car back. I have no knowledge of engines...although am learning quickly....but having now had the car independently assessed I have been informed by the assessor that oil in throttle body should have prompted the mechanic to carry out a pressure test. The dealership are stating in their defence that they asked me to monitor this problem...well they didnt mention finding this pb and it is nowhere on the paperwork handed back to me, the only place this information is written in on the mechanics job card ...and if they had said monitor this problem...how on earth do you monitor oil in the throttle body?? Everytime the car went back into the garage they plugged it into the electronic testing unit thingy and couldnt find a fault with it.

I just feel incredibly let down by the dealership as this should have been picked up whilst in warranty.

Fanny

Sounds like you have a good case against them....

Good luck!

Contact WhatCar magazine's consumer section and see if they'll help.
I asked WhatCar for help when I had some major problems with Mercedes, and 2 days after they called Mercedes HQ in the UK, the dealer called and I was offered a brand new replacement car.
WhatCar were fantastic - they really opened doors!

FannyAdams said:

I am taking my dealer to court and representing myself. My dear little Panda vehicle having done 71,359 miles needs a new engine and despite me taking my vehicle into the dealership on several occasions with a misfire they failed to diagnose the problem until my car had gone out of the mileage warranty. They are now saying the problem (a leak via the valve on a cylinder caused a decrease in compression reulting in the misfire and now irreversable damage) is fair wear and tear on a vehicle of this mileage (71,359). (The vehicle has been fully serviced from new as per the warranty agreement.)

I am looking for as many Panda owners with vehicles over 71,359 miles whose vehicles are still going strong so I can refute their claim that this is expected wear and tear on a vehicle of this mileage. I have already had an independent assessor who has called around many dealership and who has said this problem is very unusual on a Panda but I need the factual proof now.

If you would be so kind as to email me at [email protected] with your details and how many Miles your Panda has done I wont need you to come to court! but I can then print off the emails and use them to bolster my case in court. I have already been without my car for over 4 months and would love to have my little car back asap.

If you have any questions please ask away.

Thank you

FannyAdams

Click to expand...

I'm worried that sounds like the problems I'm having with my engine - I've got a compression testing kit from one of the guys at work, best start praying.....

candlestickchimney said:

I'm worried that sounds like the problems I'm having with my engine - I've got a compression testing kit from one of the guys at work, best start praying.....

Click to expand...

If you're lucky enough to catch it early replacing a valve is not such a big job - I think that's really the point about the original claim - failing to diagnose an easily recognisable fault has led directly to extensive damage to the engine, when early remedial action would have prevented it.

Thinks - perhaps that could be a fall-back position on the original question - "I was prepared - and am prepared - to pay for a valve to be replaced but subsequent damage is the result of the garage's incompetence and I think the garage should stand the difference between that and an engine change/complete rebuild."

babbo umbro said:

If you're lucky enough to catch it early replacing a valve is not such a big job - I think that's really the point about the original claim - failing to diagnose an easily recognisable fault has led directly to extensive damage to the engine, when early remedial action would have prevented it.

Thinks - perhaps that could be a fall-back position on the original question - "I was prepared - and am prepared - to pay for a valve to be replaced but subsequent damage is the result of the garage's incompetence and I think the garage should stand the difference between that and an engine change/complete rebuild."

Click to expand...

It's been running badly for about 8k miles, so I don't think I will have caught it in time, if it is that!