General 100HP Rear anti roll bar

[jakelleo]

I wonder if anyone is or has attempted to fit the Ford KA arb ?

I previously had a Skoda Fabia Vrs and had a arb fitted and it made such a difference to the general feel and handling that its got to be worth consideriing on the 100HP.

The rear suspension is very similar in general with both chassis configurations.

Its got to be worth a thought or two. I didnt even have to alter the
springs or dampers on the Skoda. It was just a simple bolt on application.:idea:

 

[ScoobyChris]

It's certainly worth investigating.

I think the biggest difference between the two cars is that the Fabia is very softly sprung as standard so the ARB is quite effective at "tightening up" the handling. Whereas the 100hp is very stiffly sprung as standard so an ARB may be counter productive without going down the route of making the springs softer.

Of course, I'm an armchair mechanic so probably wrong

Chris

 

[ivantate]

Most modern front drive hatchbacks are set up for understeer which i guess can be remedied by tightening up the rear roll. I am guessing it will make the rear far more twitchy in on the limit situations though.

 

[HP]

It would probably help as part of a rethought suspension package - i.e. differently rated springs, shocks and the bar.

 

[trackdayqueen]

It would probably help as part of a rethought suspension package - i.e. differently rated springs, shocks and the bar.

Agreed. You'd need to revise the dampers and springs to work properly with an ARB.

If you just put an ARB on with the stock setup reckon it'd make for some interesting handling, might even be more oversteery than my integra!

 

[jakelleo]

I can only relate from expeirence..

Would point out the Vrs version of the Skoda Fabia was the equal of the 100HP in as much as the suspension was lower and the dampers were of a more agressive nature than the standard Fabia but with more power in fact a minimum of 130bhp and 310 Nm ( and in my case 180 bhp and 350 Nm) proved that the rear anti roll bar that I and many other Vrs owners fitted made such a difference I could not help but bring it to the attention of Panda 100HP owners who must admit the handling could do with a bit of tlc..
I think that the cost of trying this arb from the Ford parts bit must be worth a punt.

I would love to do it but, I live in a small central London flat with no garage to play around in.

 

[ScoobyChris]

But the Fabia's suspension was still rolly-polly compared to the rock hard suspension in the Panda

Chris

 

[trackdayqueen]

Reckon you'd have to change the whole rear torsion beam though, plus you'd have to guess spring and damper rates which may or may not be successful.

I don't think it's just a case of bolting one on.

 

[claude10000000]

Hi all firstly I don't (yet) own a Panda 100hp, but my wife has a Panda MJ and I have an Alfa 145 Cloverleaf so hopefully I qualify to post! I have been doing a bit of research on the Panda 100hp's notoriously stiff suspension with a view to buying one - alas no dealer within 30 miles of me has a 100hp to test drive...aaargh! However I do know a bit about suspension and also work for Ford as an engineer. To clear up a common misconception the rear suspension on all Pandas has a built in anti-roll bar, that's the twist beam bit. Thing is they use the same beam for all Pandas (except the 4x4 according to another post on the forum) so what's stiff enough for a 1.1 is not going to cut it on the 100hp. The rear end of any FWD car needs to stiff to work all the tyres evenly (except the inside rear which can happily be off the ground during hard cornering as per quick renault clios).

So the choice is to either add a supplementary rear arb (like Ford did on the new Ka, or Abarth on it's 500) or use stiff springs / long bump stops which Fiat did on the 100hp. Maybe it was driven by cost, but maybe it drives better (better turn-in perhaps?) using the stiff spring option, we may never know.

However I looked under a new Ford Ka the other day and I'm pretty sure the beam is the same as Fiat use, and the ARB just sits inside it and bolts (I think) to the shock bottom mounts, so if anyones interested I can find the Ford part number for the additional ARB, rear springs, dampers and bump stops (they will all need to be fitted together) and somebody can try! It will definitely cure the ride but may lose something of tha handling magic the 100hp has become famous for.

Incidentally I have driven the new Ka, and found it quite underwhelming in the handling department. My wife's Panda MJ does roll around slow corners a bit but is much more fun to hustle on a country lane (pretty darn good actually) than the Ka, and remember I work for Ford so I'm not biased!

Oh yeah and my Alfa 145 has the same stiff springing and uber long bump stops at the rear as the 100hp, and also handles a treat but rides quite badly. I found the rear shocks were underdamped and using koni's or KYB ultra's helped the ride (less bouncy). Eibachs also helped hugely due to being a progressive spring on the back, but ruined the handling at anything other than 9/10ths and the front became annoyingly crashy due to lack of wheel travel.

So there's my two pence worth, I'll get back to my (ahem) very busy day at Ford Motor Company

 

[babbo umbro]

Brilliant - very useful and not speculative as most of the posts have been (necessarily).

4x4 rear totally different, of course; yes the beam acts as an ARB on a torsion beam setup; does suggest that lack of damping on rebound is an important contributor to any shortcomings.

 

[claude10000000]

Having said all that I'm still itching to test drive the 100hp - I live in NE London so hardly in the middle of nowhere, but not one single dealer has a 100hp in stock!

Does anybody in the area fancies driving my 145 in return for a quick drive in the 100hp? Even as a passenger ride, as my main concern is the (lack of) ride comfort particularly for my 1 year old son who will be in the back!

 

[ScoobyChris]

You're welcome to drive mine, but I suspect dealers will be closer

In terms of ride, I've been in the back when it's being driven in a spirited fashion, and my 3 year old daughter also regularly rides in the back and I don't think it's that bad at all. It's only if you continually drive across pot holes or try and fly over speed bumps that you'll be experiencing any crashiness imho.

My daughter loves it btw, and can happily fall asleep if it's a long journey

Chris

 

[babbo umbro]

Having said all that I'm still itching to test drive the 100hp - I live in NE London so hardly in the middle of nowhere, but not one single dealer has a 100hp in stock!

Does anybody in the area fancies driving my 145 in return for a quick drive in the 100hp? Even as a passenger ride, as my main concern is the (lack of) ride comfort particularly for my 1 year old son who will be in the back!

There's no getting away from it - the 100HP's suspension is very firm. On the other hand I'd sooner that than something too floaty; we went to Italy and back at Easter and the car acquitted itself very well - it did have a wood burning stove in the boot on the way and about 100 litres of wine and sundry other delicacies on the way back to settle it down. The back seat puts passengers quiet high and spirited cornering can roll them round a bit but a child in a safety seat would be better off than a tall adult. The roads in Devon are pretty bumpy but I've never felt that the 100HP was uncomfortable.

And it does stick like ---- to a blanket.

 

[laverda]

Hi Claude
Good writing you came up with.
Maybe you can take some good pictures from the Ka's ARB. underneath and put them up here ?

 

[claude10000000]

You're welcome to drive mine, but I suspect dealers will be closer

In terms of ride, I've been in the back when it's being driven in a spirited fashion, and my 3 year old daughter also regularly rides in the back and I don't think it's that bad at all. It's only if you continually drive across pot holes or try and fly over speed bumps that you'll be experiencing any crashiness imho.

My daughter loves it btw, and can happily fall asleep if it's a long journey

Chris

Thanks for the replies, sleeping children are essential for a relaxing car journey . Firm suspesnion I don't mind and I'm used to slowing down for speed bumps due to the lowered Alfa! As long as it's not crashy or causing excessive high speed cheek wobble in my son I'll be happy with the tradeoff of good handling the 5 days a week when it's just me in it. Still I won't buy without a test drive so the quest continues.

Meanwhile I'll try and get some pics of the Ka ARB and post them.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Claude, the weird thing about the 100hp is that it tends to lift an inside front wheel on cornering, which obviously have some fairly serious drawbacks.

This seems to come about by the rear not being stiff enough, or put another way roll control not being enough at the rear. Or it could be due to a lack of travel at the front (but that is unlikely).

I think if it's a bolt on option and the cost is reasonable, it would be worth a try but the rear suspender settings would need some revision.

 

[jakelleo]

To add to the story.. One of my earlier cars (and have had many) was a 1955 Volkswgan beetle, that had a very wayward front end being tail heavy. It was common to add sand to the front boot space. Being a bit
light with the cash in those days managed to acquire 100lb bag of cement,it might have even been 2 bags, which were placed in the spare wheel space. But due to water ingress the cement went a bit hard . But the handling improved no end. When sold on even managed to get a good part exchange, the garage didnt check the boot before the exchange, but they were very impressed with the handling.

Wonder if a couple of bags of dry cement in the boot of the 100hp
would help.

Its only a suggestion, am really trying to be helpful..
Jake.

 

[babbo umbro]

To add to the story.. One of my earlier cars (and have had many) was a 1955 Volkswgan beetle, that had a very wayward front end being tail heavy. It was common to add sand to the front boot space. Being a bit
light with the cash in those days managed to acquire 100lb bag of cement,it might have even been 2 bags, which were placed in the spare wheel space. But due to water ingress the cement went a bit hard . But the handling improved no end. When sold on even managed to get a good part exchange, the garage didnt check the boot before the exchange, but they were very impressed with the handling.

Wonder if a couple of bags of dry cement in the boot of the 100hp
would help.

Its only a suggestion, am really trying to be helpful..
Jake.

It is a question of increasing the loading on the outside rear wheel in cornering - ARB will do it, weight in boot will do it (and reduce bounce), but adding weight is sacrilege.

 

[HP]

Just out of interest, has anyone seen just how little movement there is on the rear of the 100hp before it hits the bump stop?

 

[chauspain]

Just read in autocar that the 500C has gained a rear anti-roll bar and all 500's moving forward will get one. Supposed to improve the ride so I wonder if this actually is something the 100HP would benefit from?