HP. said:

The petrol/diesel thing all boils down to personal preference, we aren't going to reach a conclusion on here.

Some like the sound, the peaky nature of petrol engines and making them sing past 7,000 revs, the fact that you don't sometimes have to wear gloves to fill up - some aren't that bothered by these particular attributes and enjoy the fact that you can make relatively rapid, discrete progress without revving the nackers off a Diesel.

Live and let live

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Indeed. People have their preferences. As most know I couldn't get rid of my MJ quick enough. For whatever reason I just could not get on with it. The throttle response (well lack of it) was very frustrating for me. But then I'm not a big fan of even turbo petrol cars as I get frustrated at the lag you get with them, so I guess in that vein a diesel turbo is never really going to go down well with me.

I just love revs, hearing and feeling the engine on full song, being able to make minute throttle adjustments and feeling the response instantaneously. But each to their own, I understand not everyone is like that.

trackdayqueen said:

Indeed. People have their preferences. As most know I couldn't get rid of my MJ quick enough. For whatever reason I just could not get on with it. The throttle response (well lack of it) was very frustrating for me. But then I'm not a big fan of even turbo petrol cars as I get frustrated at the lag you get with them, so I guess in that vein a diesel turbo is never really going to go down well with me.

I just love revs, hearing and feeling the engine on full song, being able to make minute throttle adjustments and feeling the response instantaneously. But each to their own, I understand not everyone is like that.

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What sort of turbo cars have you driven? I'll admit my experience of petrol turbo cars is somewhat limited as I've only driven the wifes car but it seems to have a decent enough gearbox and torque curve to keep it on the boil if you push it. Of course it doesn't have a huge turbo and only has 200 horsies under the bonnet so on a track it'll be pretty slow compared to something with a big turbo or a big engine but it's plenty fast and responsive for driving in a spirited manner on the road

I just don't like the fact that with a turbo diesel you get turbo lag yet you don't get the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge power band of a petrol turbo engine.

But of course it's all down to personal preference but I think I've been converted to the petrol turbo dark side and although I might buy a little Panda for driving to work cheaply I'll have to get a 2nd car with a turbo on it that drinks petrol.

306maxi said:

I just don't like the fact that with a turbo diesel you get turbo lag yet you don't get the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge power band of a petrol turbo engine.

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The main reason people get "turbo lag" in a diesel is because they're lazy and refuse to change down. You'll get lag in a petrol turbo too if you drive it similarly, but these days most manufacturers seem to be moving away from huge turbos that don't kick in til 4k rpm and fitting smaller ones that start delivering from about 2-2.5k rpm.

Chris

ScoobyChris said:

The main reason people get "turbo lag" in a diesel is because they're lazy and refuse to change down. You'll get lag in a petrol turbo too if you drive it similarly, but these days most manufacturers seem to be moving away from huge turbos that don't kick in til 4k rpm and fitting smaller ones that start delivering from about 2-2.5k rpm.

Chris

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The wifes car as you know has an engine which was first made in '91 or thereabouts so isn't exactly a modern design and the 200 horsies it puts out were pretty impressive back in the day. The wifes car pulls strongly from about 2.5-3k rpm which is really no worse than a normally aspirated car being off cam

306maxi said:

What sort of turbo cars have you driven? I'll admit my experience of petrol turbo cars is somewhat limited as I've only driven the wifes car but it seems to have a decent enough gearbox and torque curve to keep it on the boil if you push it. Of course it doesn't have a huge turbo and only has 200 horsies under the bonnet so on a track it'll be pretty slow compared to something with a big turbo or a big engine but it's plenty fast and responsive for driving in a spirited manner on the road

I just don't like the fact that with a turbo diesel you get turbo lag yet you don't get the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge power band of a petrol turbo engine.

But of course it's all down to personal preference but I think I've been converted to the petrol turbo dark side and although I might buy a little Panda for driving to work cheaply I'll have to get a 2nd car with a turbo on it that drinks petrol.

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I've driven a fair few different turbo cars mostly MR2 turbos from stock up to 450bhp. I don't like the lag you get mid-corner, you cannot avoid it on a turbo car. Small throttle adjustments are trickier mid corner in a turbo car even a petrol one, you just don't get the quickness of response required to adjust the angle of the car on the throttle. This is not a mega issue on the road, just a bit annoying on track really. Petrol turbo cars are fine on the road, but I just find high revving NAs a bit more involving as you feel that you are really working the car.

Well im not happy.
Mito's supposed trick Q" diff is in fact somesort of electric traction control
Not a slippy diff. why say it has a Q2 lsd if it doesnt mr salesman?
Got all contract and specs through today. Think im going to get a Panda
Wish everyone would stop going on about diesel/petrol argument though
Get what you like FFS!
I f we all liked the same we'd be inbred!
I like to screw the arse of my cars. Not sit at 2000 RPM
if thats what you like, crack on. Im sure you love it!
Looking forward to driving a Panda
I know it seems trivial not liking it due to slippy diff missing and the fact a Panda doesnt have one anyway but why lie to me?
Also Turismo has wheel trims and basically no spec. A/C and thats it.
With leather and a set of alloys price getting stupid. Will get 100Hp and get it trimmed
Thanks for all your opinions though guys. We all have one

SeiSporting said:

I know it seems trivial not liking it due to slippy diff missing and the fact a Panda doesnt have one anyway but why lie to me?

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Alfa don't claim that it's a proper LSD Alfa clearly state that it's an electronic differential.

I know that
Well i do now. Not what the bloke on the phone told me though

SeiSporting said:

I know that
Well i do now. Not what the bloke on the phone told me though

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yes well there are a lot of crappy salespeople around.

Have you driven it, just wondering. It might feel and work a lot like a proper LSD.

HP. said:

Have you driven it, just wondering. It might feel and work a lot like a proper LSD.

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I haven't myself. But I hear that once you get used to the way it drives with the steering and so on it's a nice enough car to drive. I personally think the Electronic Q2 will be fine for all but the most hardcore of drivers.

HP. said:

Have you driven it, just wondering. It might feel and work a lot like a proper LSD.

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It won't though. Because it can't.

If you are going to get a car with an LSD may as well get a proper one.

So you haven't driven it either and are basing your conclusion on what?

From what I've seen of the electronic diff on the Panda cross they're pretty good. Uses the ABS system to brake a spinning wheel which brings the load back to the wheel with grip.

HP. said:

So you haven't driven it either and are basing your conclusion on what?

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I am basing my conclusion on the fact that it isn't a proper LSD. I take it that you have owned cars with LSDs?

No, I haven't. I just hope you're not going to start yet another diatribe about how something's rubbish - like Diesel Pandas, all forms of driver aids and how the Panda 100hp still isn't really good enough for you - then find yourself once again diametrically opposed to opinion on here.

HP. said:

No, I haven't. I just hope you're not going to start yet another diatribe about how something's rubbish - like Diesel Pandas, all forms of driver aids and how the Panda 100hp still isn't really good enough for you - then find yourself once again diametrically opposed to opinion on here.

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Not at all, but having owned 4 cars with LSD's (torsen, plate and viscous) I think I have some idea of how an LSD affects handling and traction. Believe me it makes a world of difference. I really do think it's something of a shame that manufacturers think 'e-diffs' are the way forward rather than just doing the obvious thing of putting an LSD in a gearbox that's all. An e-diff is going to use the ABS system and brake the wheel. An LSD does not do that it limits the amount of 'slip' (normally a percentage) between the two driven wheels. So it is well possible to spin both wheels together (rather than spin the power away like you do with an open diff). Which is great for throttle adjustability and power sliding in RWD cars and in the Integra for example, it is brilliant at pulling the car straight when in a slide. An e-diff is just going to brake the spinning wheel in order to aid traction. This obviously isn't the same and it's really a variation on traction control I guess.

I'm actually pretty happy with my 100hp at the moment. I've found higher speed handling is actually quite fun (A-road stuff) and you can hustle it along a fair bit with at least some throttle adjustability which is all good fun.

I do think that diesel panda's are frankly awful, but I understand that others might not agree with that. That is my opinion to which I am entitled. I have owned one after all. Again, driver's aids are not my thing and nothing you say will make me like them. Again that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

trackdayqueen said:

I really do think it's something of a shame that manufacturers think 'e-diffs' are the way forward rather than just doing the obvious thing of putting an LSD in a gearbox that's all.

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£1000 per unit for LSD or 0p per unit to re-programme the ABS system. Seems the obvious thing is to implement an E-diff.

Pick any one of these road tests, nobody has anything bad to say about the Q2 diff. Surely they would mention it's not like the real thing, it's awful etc. if it wasn't any good...... Interesting that you don't like it already and it's 'not as good as a real one', yet have no experience of it whatsoever.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/alfa+romeo/mito/27521/5

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Alfa-Romeo-Mito-1.6-JTDm-Lusso/237193/

http://www.autozine.co.uk/text/681.html

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/225075/alfa_romeo_mito_14_tb.html

I have to be honest and say I'm siding with the others TDQ Sure an LSD would have been nice in the Mito but like people say it would add cost to the car. You can buy a Quaife Grande Punto LSD for £600 online anyway so the option is there should you need it. 99% of people will never drive their car hard enough to really need an LSD anyway. If you're driving on a public road and the difference between electronic Q2 and a proper LSD is a big problem for you this car is either pretty bad or you're going faster than you really should be going on that bit of road where there could be sheep, people, other cars and various other hazards. Not trying to be patronising or anything but it's true.

155bhp going through the front wheels on 215 tyres shouldn't be a problem to be honest and if it is then you should probably slow down or buy an LSD and go on a track