Recent comments suggest that the Eagle F1 GSD's are pretty ineffective in the snow / ice, and I suspect we're in for a cold one this winter!

I've been looking at the prices for winter tyres, and spotted Toyo Snow Proxy's at under £40 each...Assuming you changed back to the Eagle F1's in Spring, you'd get at least 2-3 years out the Toyo's, which starts to make economic sense...

Only issue, is that they don't make them in 195/45/15 sizes...Closest is 195/50/15...

Has anybody fitted 195/50/15's to a 100HP? Did you have any issues with clearance?

diameter of the 45 is 556.5mm

diameter of the 50 is 576mm

cant see you getting any problems

The site I use for this sort of thing (http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg2.html - about a third of the way down) makes the 195/45 a rolling radius of 278.25mm and the 195/50 a rolling radius of 288mm, a difference of +3.5% in the circumference. Whether this fits or not, remember that when your speedo says 70mph you'll be doing 72.45mph, and for every mile you travel your ODO will add 1.035 miles.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm seeing if GP 15" steels fit this weekend and if so I'll be fitting them with 175/50/15 tyres as that makes the difference 278.25 vs 278, a difference of only -0.09%.

Ben

Will a 14" rim fit over the brakes? I'd go for a narrow tyre with high sidewalls for winter.

i.e. get some steel rims for winter... and save your alloys getting all full of salty crap.

Fluoxetine said:

Recent comments suggest that the Eagle F1 GSD's are pretty ineffective in the snow / ice, and I suspect we're in for a cold one this winter!

I've been looking at the prices for winter tyres, and spotted Toyo Snow Proxy's at under £40 each...Assuming you changed back to the Eagle F1's in Spring, you'd get at least 2-3 years out the Toyo's, which starts to make economic sense...

Only issue, is that they don't make them in 195/45/15 sizes...Closest is 195/50/15...

Has anybody fitted 195/50/15's to a 100HP? Did you have any issues with clearance?

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I used 195/50-15 Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip winter tyres on my 100HP when I had it.
There are NO problems whatsoever with that size.

santa said:

I used 195/50-15 Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip winter tyres on my 100HP when I had it.
There are NO problems whatsoever with that size.

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That's good to know, and may save me dicking about with various wheels over this coming weekend!

Ben

yeah fit snow tyres coz rally cars dont crash in the snow with them do they

dave said:

yeah fit snow tyres coz rally cars dont crash in the snow with them do they

YouTube - Rally crash compilation special snow rally

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Think you're slightly missing the point Dave...

santa said:

I used 195/50-15 Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip winter tyres on my 100HP when I had it.
There are NO problems whatsoever with that size.

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Excellent - That's just the feedback I'm looking for...

As for speedo discrepancy - I don't find it all that accurate with the standard tyres fitted...Indicated 85mph = 80mph true on the GPS...

(On a private road, of course... )

The only cars I've owned with extremely accurate speedos have been Elises, which have a wheel speed sensor on the back hub carrier...Speedo / GPS were pretty much identical...

BenP said:

Think you're slightly missing the point Dave...

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Fluoxetine said:

for speedo discrepancy - I don't find it all that accurate with the standard tyres fitted...Indicated 85mph = 80mph true on the GPS...

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Consumer GPS devices aren't necessarily anymore accurate than a car's speedo. A friend is a fast jet pilot in the RAF and he's stuck a few to the canopy of a Tornado before and says they're quite a way off the aircraft's true air speed.

Surely the Panda's speedo works of the ABS/wheel speed sensor?

At the end of the day though, 195/45 vs 195/50 isn't going to be a vast discrepancy so who cares!

Ben

BenP said:

Consumer GPS devices aren't necessarily anymore accurate than a car's speedo. A friend is a fast jet pilot in the RAF and he's stuck a few to the canopy of a Tornado before and says they're quite a way off the aircraft's true air speed.

Ben

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air speed is a measure of how fast the air is flowing over aircraft so GPS wouldn't be able to measure that i'm assuming you mean general overland speed as Standard GPS must have some sort of lag but 30mph vs 150mph (whatever the stall speed of a tornado is) would equal a much larger margin of error.
anyway how would you stick a GPS to the Tornado canopy? it's curved!!? and also i wouldn't want to as it's loaded with explosives for blowing it apart in case of emergency, it's quite frankly a dangerous thing to do...

edit: Fluoxetine! interesting choice of name, i forgot mine today though i'm not taking them for their primary use so its not much of a problem.

maddogmorg said:

air speed is a measure of how fast the air is flowing over aircraft so GPS wouldn't be able to measure that i'm assuming you mean general overland speed as Standard GPS must have some sort of lag but 30mph vs 150mph (whatever the stall speed of a tornado is) would equal a much larger margin of error.
anyway how would you stick a GPS to the Tornado canopy? it's curved!!? and also i wouldn't want to as it's loaded with explosives for blowing it apart in case of emergency, it's quite frankly a dangerous thing to do...

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Oh crap I don't know - I'm not the fast jet pilot! One way or the other he said not to assume that a GPS device is more accurate than a car's speedo.

And as regards sticking it to the canopy - no idea, but he certainly had it somewhere in there. And as for the safety aspect, from some of the stories I've heard, sticking something to the canopy is the least of our/their worries!

Ben

I have never thought of changing tyres in the winter. If you mostly travel in cities that are well (over) gritted and stick to the speed limits will it make a massive difference?
Driving in and around Edinburgh, i have not noticed a decline in the tyres performance yet.
Anyone got thoughts on this?

Simonlamondphoto said:

I have never thought of changing tyres in the winter. If you mostly travel in cities that are well (over) gritted and stick to the speed limits will it make a massive difference?
Driving in and around Edinburgh, i have not noticed a decline in the tyres performance yet.
Anyone got thoughts on this?

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I guess it's all down to how much you *depend* on your car - If the weather is particularly bad, you might be able to take public transport or work from home...But unfortunately I have cause to drive to Aberdeen, and further north at times, and buses / trains are pretty irregular up that way...

As covered on the other thread, standard tyres operate most effectively at temps over 6C...Below this, it's difficult to get enough heat into them to generate the sort of grip you're used to, and the rubber becomes quite hard...Also, the tread pattern on the 100HP's Goodyear Eagle F1's isn't conducive to good grip on ice / snow...(Somebody posted a pic on the other thread demonstrating the differences between F1's and a proper winter tyre).

Winter tyres are made of a softer compound, which operates below 6C, and there's extra groves cut in the tread to improve grip...

They're in no way comparable to studded tyres / snow chains (a bit overkill 99% of the time! ), but in light to moderate winter conditions, some people liken using winter tyres to driving in heavy rain...

At £150~ for 4 (plus fitting), you'll get a good few years out of a set, providing you change back to the F1's in Spring...

Sticking to the speed limits is a bit of a red herring - You can lose it at 5mph if you hit black ice...Proper driver training focusing on roadcraft and observation is more relevant than actual speed...

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice - I've driven an Elise on Yokohama A048R's in snow (a semi slick track tyre) - It wasn't fun, but I got to where I was going!

Fluoxetine said:

I guess it's all down to how much you *depend* on your car - If the weather is particularly bad, you might be able to take public transport or work from home...But unfortunately I have cause to drive to Aberdeen, and further north at times, and buses / trains are pretty irregular up that way...

As covered on the other thread, standard tyres operate most effectively at temps over 6C...Below this, it's difficult to get enough heat into them to generate the sort of grip you're used to, and the rubber becomes quite hard...Also, the tread pattern on the 100HP's Goodyear Eagle F1's isn't conducive to good grip on ice / snow...(Somebody posted a pic on the other thread demonstrating the differences between F1's and a proper winter tyre).

Winter tyres are made of a softer compound, which operates below 6C, and there's extra groves cut in the tread to improve grip...

They're in no way comparable to studded tyres / snow chains (a bit overkill 99% of the time! ), but in light to moderate winter conditions, some people liken using winter tyres to driving in heavy rain...

At £150~ for 4 (plus fitting), you'll get a good few years out of a set, providing you change back to the F1's in Spring...

Sticking to the speed limits is a bit of a red herring - You can lose it at 5mph if you hit black ice...Proper driver training focusing on roadcraft and observation is more relevant than actual speed...

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice - I've driven an Elise on Yokohama A048R's in snow (a semi slick track tyre) - It wasn't fun, but I got to where I was going!

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Yeah, your right about the speedlimits. Driver training is a good idea, we should have a driving test like you get in Scandinavia.

My route to work today, admitedly in a 4x4 Panda, but with the new Vredestein Quatrac2 tyres fitted the other week it never put a 'foot' wrong over 5 miles of this sort of condition earlier on!

If you want winter tyres, just get a set of steel wheels off a scrap Panda, or other Fiat, fit a set of these for six months of the year and enjoy the sticky summer tyres when you want them most?!

james_f said:

My route to work today, admitedly in a 4x4 Panda,

View attachment 54539

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such a cool picture of a great car
wish my drive to work was as interesting

i am fitting winter tyres to my 500 next week - better safe than sorry even in urban areas

Had mine fitted today - Toyo Snowprox S952. They've already helped as I had to see a client down a few miles of untreated road which after last night's snow would have been impassable on Eagle F1s!

Ben

Okay - Finally took the plunge and ordered a set of winter tyres on Monday, which were delivered today...





Ended up ordering from Camskill ( http://www.camskill.co.uk/ ), with a pleasingly quick delivery, despite the time of year...

The tyre is a Toyo Snow Proxy S952, in a 195/50/15 size, costing £38.17 each...

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m11b0s623p8431

Including delivery, x4 tyres came in at £162.48...I'll arrange fitting tomorrow, at around £20-30...

It's been pretty mild lately, but sleet is forecast tomorrow, and I'm off up north, so should have a decent opportunity to see how they perform compared to the standard Eagle F1's...