littlepip17 said:

don't swear in here remember fiat used the 90hp variant also in gp and doblo so there was no need to swear atall please be careful in future

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I humbly apologise I just find it a tad scilly that Vau.....:chin: :idea: them other lot that produce chav mobiles who buy the engines from Fiat whereas Fiat could easilly use them themselves in their little supermini.

So what's the difference between the 1248 70hp and 1248 90hp, what adds the 20hp? just management and particulate filter or something else?

I know 0-60 isn't everything, but 18secs is worrying. 13.5 in the MJ is on the slow side already but another 5secs? I just think you are going to have your foot welded to the floor just to try and keep up with traffic.

Here's an interesting one:
Check out web reviews of the MJ Cross and the 1.2 petrol 4x4 (bear in mind the Cross has been out a couple of years on the continent) and there seems to be a view that the petrol version is actually a better bet -- no turbo lag and so pulls more consistently at low speed, which is of course better in off road situations as well as in traffic. Certainly, when I test drove a Panda Multijet before I bought my pre-owned 4x4, it did seem to suffer from this. On the other hand, once turbo is spinning, much more torque -- better for the hills.

Either way, the 4x4s are engineered for snow-covered mountain passes, so top speed and acceleration are not part of the mix. Low end grunt (remember the gearing is lower all round, and 1st much lower than normal) for slow off road use is what they've aimed at.

Alan D asks what a 'standard' Panda 4x4 is. All the 4x4s here in the UK (and indeed in most other markets too) are the 'Climbing' version -- trim levels somewhere between the Dynamic and the Eleganza, coloured bumpers, alloys and 185/65 tyres, etc. The 'basic' 4x4 is more like the Active model - black plastic bumbers, steel wheels and narrower tyres, no remote locks etc. I think its only sold in Italy.

Just for fun, here's the Italian Fiat website 4x4 pricing and model range:
Note that there, both the 'basic' and 'Climbing' versions can be had with either petrol or Multijet, and note how much more the Cross is (Prices in Euro)

1.2 4X4 MY 06 €13,060
1.2 4X4 Climbing MY 06 €13,800
1.3 Multijet 16V 4x4 MY 06 €14,930
1.3 Multijet 16V 4x4 Climbing MY 06 €15,910
1.3 Multijet 16V 4x4 Cross €18,380

HP. said:

Any car is only as dangerous as the driver. If you have something slow you just need to plan manoeuvres better.

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Well said. More power and more speed doesn't automatically mean 'better'.

My third car (after 1979 VW Polo and a 1980 Renault 14 TS - which was pretty quick) was a 2CV which I kept for ten years. I learned all about 'planning' driving moves with that car, and learned how to get the best from just 29bhp. It was a good education... and I've been had to put a lot of that back into practice with the 4x4

littlepip17 said:

it looks ike it could be a vent but it's just blocked off maybe it was used in the pari dacar ones

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The Cross was around before the Paris-Dakar specials were made. Its just for show, but is part of a narrow tray that runs teh length of teh roof and ends with a crosswise tray at the back, as seen in this Fiat publicity photo (link is to a German review site)
http://www.babez.de/fiat/pandacross/pic04.jpg

Yep seen the tray running front to back since the day of it's launch but there is a small square panel right at the front of it? Any of our oversees members know more on this?

How do you make a Panda Cross?
Steal his bamboo!
Boom, boom!

doctorchris said:

How do you make a Panda Cross?
Steal his bamboo!
Boom, boom!

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Just thinking what colour to get it in, obviously you would have to avoid red

So maybe keep to black :yum: although I wonder if those cream/white side panels would be a nightmare to keep clean?

Just called the dealer and they have a green one in the showroom, they are also going to look at re-finance as I only got the MJ in Nov. If it's too expensive at the mo I can always wait a little while. I also asked them to find me one in black

Alan.D said:

So what's the difference between the 1248 70hp and 1248 90hp, what adds the 20hp? just management and particulate filter or something else?

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The 90hp version fas variable vane geometry on the turbo, rather than fixed on the 70hp version. Presumably there's also ECU changes to deal with this too.
The 90hp version also seems to have more turbo lag than the 70 hp version, but maybe that's just the way I drive it. (We have the 70hp version in my Panda, and the 90hp version in Sammiboo's Grande Punto.)

I've just sat in a new Panda Cross at the dealers in Watford. So new to them its still got the protective film stuck on the bonnet and 'do not open' seals across the doors, literally just arrived. Dark green metallic with light brown (I wont say 'beige') side panels. The seats are dark green with light brown inserts too. Looks very smart. Air con, not climate. Leather steering wheel with radio controls, split/fold/sliding rear seat. All very tempting... £11995 though, less 'haggling'. Once its been registered as a demonstrator, I'll go and have a go... watch this space. (Better not buy it though: other things to pay for first!)

Couple of photos - which, in passing, show the new iPhone isn't a very good camera (I knew that when I got it, before you all say 'Told you so')

(Alan D - Euro markets get black as a colour, so I guess that'll be available here -- I love the Italian name: Nero Provocatore. Others seem to be the dark green metallic, really bright orange or a sludgy brown)

By the way, related back to the fog lights topic, note that on the Cross, the foglights are mounted higher up (they're the inner most set of 'headlights' in the photos above). Because they are more than 400mm off the ground, they can be used at any time. The indicators are down where the foglights normally go on 'lesser' Pandas

These are really nice!
I went to my local Fiat garage, not expecting much, but was amazed when I saw it in the flesh! My fav. part is the headlight and rear light arrangements, they look tasty! :yum:

Slow to accelerate they may be, but when actually driving it, the engine / bhp is not an issue, as long as you remember you are in a smaller engined car and drive accordingly - plan ahead when driving, and only slow down when you have to (although always be ready to do so of course).

I'm sure the diesel version is the one to have, but not sure I could live with the looks, I think they'll date quite quickly...?

had a more closer look today it seems there is no centre diff but it has an electronic type thing between front and rear instead of the viscose so maybe it engages if it slips the front then as said it also uses the abs to stop wheels spinning

not sure of the swich thou does it simply disengage the abs trikery or does it also stop it engaging the rear and use like a front wheel drive

Herts Hillhopper said:

I've just sat in a new Panda Cross at the dealers in Watford. So new to them its still got the protective film stuck on the bonnet and 'do not open' seals across the doors, literally just arrived. Dark green metallic with light brown (I wont say 'beige') side panels. The seats are dark green with light brown inserts too. Looks very smart. Air con, not climate. Leather steering wheel with radio controls, split/fold/sliding rear seat. All very tempting... £11995 though, less 'haggling'. Once its been registered as a demonstrator, I'll go and have a go... watch this space. (Better not buy it though: other things to pay for first!)

Couple of photos - which, in passing, show the new iPhone isn't a very good camera (I knew that when I got it, before you all say 'Told you so')

(Alan D - Euro markets get black as a colour, so I guess that'll be available here -- I love the Italian name: Nero Provocatore. Others seem to be the dark green metallic, really bright orange or a sludgy brown)

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:worship: I just love those looks. I'm so dissapointed that I didn't wait before getting the MJ Dealer called and it's just not viable for at least another 18mths. So either I forget it for now or buy as a second car.

Alan.D said:

:worship: I just love those looks. I'm so dissapointed that I didn't wait before getting the MJ Dealer called and it's just not viable for at least another 18mths

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Why isn't it viable?

I bought the MJ on finance so will have to pay about £2.5k before arranging a new 3 yr 0% finance deal on the cross.