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General ABS on snow - I'm amazed...

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General ABS on snow - I'm amazed...

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RafalW

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Never had an ABS car before and never driven one in snow, so since it’s full winter today (with lots and lots of snow and some -2 Celsius, so it’s rather Christmas than Easter:D) , I’ve taken my Panda for a ride on snowy roads outside town.
And I’m amazed how different feeling it is to brake with ABS on snow – the stopping distance seems to be longer (and I know ABS it’s about steering while braking rather than short stopping) but no sliding and full control – that’s what I have to get used to.
Well, it’s learning time, I suppose…
PS. Happy Easter, everyone :)
 
It's brilliant isn't it. I'm in awe of the brilliance of modern car engineering. I also have ESP which stops you losing control or spinning on the ice or snow - now that is amazing!!!
 
It's brilliant isn't it! I'm in awe of the brilliance of modern car engineering. I also have ESP which stops you losing control or spinning on the ice or snow - now that is amazing!!! :slayer:
 
RafalW said:
Never had an ABS car before and never driven one in snow, so since it’s full winter today (with lots and lots of snow and some -2 Celsius, so it’s rather Christmas than Easter:D) , I’ve taken my Panda for a ride on snowy roads outside town.
And I’m amazed how different feeling it is to brake with ABS on snow – the stopping distance seems to be longer (and I know ABS it’s about steering while braking rather than short stopping) but no sliding and full control – that’s what I have to get used to.
Well, it’s learning time, I suppose…
PS. Happy Easter, everyone :)
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From what I have been told..:idea:
when you brake (and lock the wheels) without ABS in snow you will get a build up of snow in front of the tyres, this gets bigger and helps to slow the car, combined with the tyres digging in and getting through to the road.

With ABS the build up of snow only has a fraction of a second to form then you roll over it, over and over again. so no amount of snow has a chance to build up in front of the tyres to help slow the car, the tyres also do not have a chance to dig through the snow onto the road.

Sort of makes sense I guess..
 
medlow said:
From what I have been told..:idea:
when you brake (and lock the wheels) without ABS in snow you will get a build up of snow in front of the tyres, this gets bigger and helps to slow the car, combined with the tyres digging in and getting through to the road.

With ABS the build up of snow only has a fraction of a second to form then you roll over it, over and over again. so no amount of snow has a chance to build up in front of the tyres to help slow the car, the tyres also do not have a chance to dig through the snow onto the road.

Sort of makes sense I guess..
Click to expand...

That is very true - Volkswagen have now created a new ABS system for the Toureg it'd called ABS Plus. The car knows when it is on slippery surfaces (grass, mud, gravel and snow) and allows the wheels to lock up longer before the ABS regulates the brakes - this allows the mud/snow/grass/gravel to build up in front of the wheels to provide shorter stopping distances.
 
True, true...
And as far as I can remember, when ABS whas something new and not so perfect, there was ABS on/off switch in some cars, so that were You to tell the car it is on slippery surfaces.
Whatever it is, it's still snowing and now I'm taking my parent's car (no ABS Skoda Fabia) for a ride. What a luck we didn't switch for summer tires yet...
 
I have a Grande punto that has ABS and EBD and like you say Rafal it seems to take longer to stop BUT the car stays in a straight line and you still retain control TBH i dont think many people could stop a Non ABS car faster on snow its all in the mind as the clip below shows.....

the EBD (electronic brake force distribution) is clever too it knows how much grip each tire has and applies the brakes to maximize stopping power without the car loosing control..
say you was driving down a road that was half covered in snow and half clear with your passenger side on snow (say the gutter) and the drivers side wheels on clear tarmac the car stops straight every time :slayer:

Have a look at this Rafal shows what a difference the various elecronic aids make to normal driving situations taken from a british car program called Fifth Gear..



And this old clip from Top gear with an old fiat Uno in 2 parts



 
That 5th Gear video is amazing - i've downloaded it. My new Panda features all of those electronic aids - it's nice to know what it can do without risking doing it myself! I just cant wait for some snow and ice to try my TRaction control and ESP out!
 
In snow and ice, if it really gets bad, remember to pump the break anyway. The car should slow better.
 
rambyuk said:
In snow and ice, if it really gets bad, remember to pump the break anyway. The car should slow better.
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The whole point of ABS is that you just press the pedal firmly and don't need to pulse the brakes. If you do this in a car equipped with ABS you will be defeating the object as the ABS pulses the brakes for you - your stopping distance would also be greater
 
Fair enough, I'm only going off what crazy Finns told me in ice driving. That said they also said 'don't brake'!! (It was a on a frozen lake course, so hardly a real world situation)
 
Snow? Snow?! It was gloriously sunny down here and we've just had a fantastic 100 mile blat down some local military roads.

Btw, electronic driver aids are for wimps ;)

Chris
 
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:) you can stop as quick with out abs, it,s called cadence braking. if you know what your doing it,s just as effective. (y)
 
ScoobyChris said:
Snow? Snow?! It was gloriously sunny down here and we've just had a fantastic 100 mile blat down some local military roads.

Btw, electronic driver aids are for wimps ;)

Chris
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It has snowed, raied and shined here. Electronic aids like ESP may one day save your life - people on here who've lost control and crashed have admitted they regretted not ordering it. I am a perfectly good driver and can control skids but the car can react a lot quicker and more intuitivley than I can. The debate rages on.... some like it some don't ;)
 
puffed out daddy said:
:) you can stop as quick with out abs, it,s called cadence braking. if you know what your doing it,s just as effective. (y)
Click to expand...

ABS applies the brakes up to 15 times a second - there is no way a human can beat the cars electronics. (Not having a go - I've just watched that ABS Top GEar video on this thread and that's what it states) (y)
 
Sammyboy said:
It has snowed, raied and shined here. Electronic aids like ESP may one day save your life - people on here who've lost control and crashed have admitted they regretted not ordering it.
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One has to ask how they got into that situation in the first place ;) I'm by no means the best driver in the world, but I've done a couple of courses and never got into a situation where I've needed ESP. ESP also can't defy the laws of physics :D

Chris
 
Your right Sammy, I went to Alfas race track in Italy 2 years ago and one of the things we were taught was cadence braking whilst steering through a chicane. We could never beat the abs, and it was physically very demanding doing it over and over again. Also went to Norway last year and got driven by one of the very nice girls at the hotel down the mountain into town, she had snow tyres which gave her car (a golf-no taste but it was a free ride) quite alot of grip, she also drove one handed and was completely relaxed which I think is the key to feeling what the car is doing and anticipating trouble. In the UK most people are to tense and dont feel the danger signs until its too late.
 
ScoobyChris said:
One has to ask how they got into that situation in the first place ;) I'm by no means the best driver in the world, but I've done a couple of courses and never got into a situation where I've needed ESP. ESP also can't defy the laws of physics :D



Defying the laws of physics is something they cant do granted but it's nice to know that it's there in the back ground if for any reason it's needed
(y)
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