Hi.
Over the last three days there is a smell of petrol on odd times in the cabin and when getting out of the car when you stop. I have been round and round the car looking for drips and and seepage with no success.

This occurred at the same time as a feeling the car was running lean, no EML no codes stored or anything amiss in the live data. A bit worrying as I have another run to Cramlington in just over a weeks time and we are having a break in Strathpeffer, starting the 19th July, my first holiday since 2009.

There is no sounds of air leaks etc.


Any help would be appreciated.

Can someone also tell me where the evaporative charcoal canister lives.

Cramlington?

I spent a month there one night.

murphyv310 said:

Hi.
Over the last three days there is a smell of petrol on odd times in the cabin and when getting out of the car when you stop. I have been round and round the car looking for drips and and seepage with no success.

This occurred at the same time as a feeling the car was running lean, no EML no codes stored or anything amiss in the live data. A bit worrying as I have another run to Cramlington in just over a weeks time and we are having a break in Strathpeffer, starting the 19th July, my first holiday since 2009.

There is no sounds of air leaks etc.


Any help would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I once had a simliar thing with an older Panda. I hadn't put the petrol locking cap on correctly.

Dave lee said:

I once had a simliar thing with an older Panda. I hadn't put the petrol locking cap on correctly.

Click to expand...

I did wonder if its to do with the filler assembly not properly sealing and perhaps allowing air in that the evaporative system would draw in and weaken the mixture?

Hi.
The smell is around the tank area but it's not constant, mostly notice it after a drive and when you stop.
If I knew where the canister was I'd look and see if there was a split pipe or if it was damaged, cracked etc.

Looks like it's in one of the wheel arches.

lunchbeers said:

Looks like it's in one of the wheel arches.

Click to expand...

Many thanks.
Looks more involved than I thought. Certainly more noticeable on the filler side.

Just wondering though if it's in the nearside arch. I had a motorbike hit that side at the rear 3/4 panel in 2019 and I wonder if some bracketery was damaged at the time and something has worked loose.

Hi All

Sound a bit like my step uncle, he always smells of petrol and has a false leg.

Tim

murphyv310 said:

Many thanks.
Looks more involved than I thought. Certainly more noticeable on the filler side.

Just wondering though if it's in the nearside arch. I had a motorbike hit that side at the rear 3/4 panel in 2019 and I wonder if some bracketery was damaged at the time and something has worked loose.

Click to expand...

It's possible, but I'd certainly expect it to be on filler neck side of the car.

Somewhere on the interwebs is a video of someone rustproofing a new Panda taking out all arch liners, I can't for the life of me find it now.

It's a red panda and it's one of the Nordic countries.

Was a fairly comprehensive video, so it might be visible, save you having to tear the car apart.

Hi.
I found today that the capless fuel filler outer latch hadn't latched. I could open the metal flap with my finger. After fiddling with it it went click and the metal flap moved a little. I operated it with the filler spout a number of times and sprayed it all with WD40. I put a couple of gallons of fuel in which brought up to 3/4 full. So far there is no whiff of petrol fumes and I think the poor running has reduced a little. I am going out later and I'll see if things have improved.


Will update the thread mid afternoon.

Hi.
Well the poor running continued and there was a very slight smell of petrol still.

I have since removed the purge solenoid and low and behold I found an issue. With it removed from the car I could not suck through it. On applying 12v to the contacts there was a dull click but I could still not suck through it, I tried a good few times to see if it would work but no.
Looking from the vacuum side you can see a bronze bush with a stainless "pin" that must be the piston for the valve, a squirt of WD40 was applied and the next power up it sounded different and I could suck through it but it was hard, the next time I tried the click was much more solid and it was very easy to suck through it releasing the power and it sealed again and I couldn't suck through it. I then gave it a squirt of Lithium grease and all seems well.

It's now reinstalled and the fuel smell has gone. I still have some rough running so will disconnect the battery for half an hour in the hope the issue is the ECU needing a reset.

Idling is spot on as is full throttle only on small throttle openings is this hesitation/jerking noticed.

Hopefully We have a cure.

PS I hope this has not damaged the Carbon Canister or something else.

Sounds like a nice, easy fix after some great detective work, but shouldn't a fault with the purge valve have triggered a fault code?

gar074 said:

Sounds like a nice, easy fix after some great detective work, but shouldn't a fault with the purge valve have triggered a fault code?

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Yes I agree I'd have thought the EML would have come on plus some codes. Perhaps this only occurs with the set up in our cars when it's stuck closed. It makes sense though the smell with a stuck closed purge valve.
Will see tomorrow if the bad running has cleared after having the battery disconnected.
I'm hoping there isn't another issue, the Panda has shown up a few wobbles recently, the brake servo vacuum switch was faulty recently and its rubber plunger was badly swollen and I'm wondering if this could be to do with something in the purge circuit, they live close by each other. No social distancing for them

lunchbeers said:

Somewhere on the interwebs is a video of someone rustproofing a new Panda taking out all arch liners, I can't for the life of me find it now.

It's a red panda and it's one of the Nordic countries.

Was a fairly comprehensive video, so it might be visible, save you having to tear the car apart.

Click to expand...

Red Panda

Hi.
Well we have a fix!! Did a 10 mile round trip this morning dropping off my wife for her volunteering with the Red Cross at the Covid19 vaccination centre in Dreghorn, car running perfectly and much livelier than its been, (surprising how issues creep up and you don't notice it) So the half hour battery disconnect did an ECU reset.

I will keep an eye on the solenoid though in case it jams closed again.

Hoping that the charcoal canister is OK after its ordeal.

KPat said:

Red Panda

Click to expand...

And appears it's undersealed!

murphyv310 said:

Well we have a fix!!

Click to expand...

My fingers are crossed for you. Our 2014 1.2 has now had 2 evap cannisters and 2 solenoids plus the last time a pile of other sensors. I am convinced this was all down to dampness in the crankcase breather messing up the sensor in the inlet manifold. Both our cars were really full of yellow sludge. Both now have catch cans that collect the water. The 2014 car produces far less than the 2011. Both are totally sludge free now so I hope will be OK from here on. Our issue was MAP sensor upset leading to solenoid staying open or shut leading to rough running and carbon build up on O2 sensors etc.

I would recommend checking that you have no sludge build up in the inlet manifold just to rule this out.

Daughters 2011 car ran hugely better after being cleaned out. The difference was dramatic.

Anyway I am glad your fixed and hope its the end of the trouble.

The Panda Nut said:

My fingers are crossed for you. Our 2014 1.2 has now had 2 evap cannisters and 2 solenoids plus the last time a pile of other sensors. I am convinced this was all down to dampness in the crankcase breather messing up the sensor in the inlet manifold. Both our cars were really full of yellow sludge. Both now have catch cans that collect the water. The 2014 car produces far less than the 2011. Both are totally sludge free now so I hope will be OK from here on. Our issue was MAP sensor upset leading to solenoid staying open or shut leading to rough running and carbon build up on O2 sensors etc.

I would recommend checking that you have no sludge build up in the inlet manifold just to rule this out.

Daughters 2011 car ran hugely better after being cleaned out. The difference was dramatic.

Anyway I am glad your fixed and hope its the end of the trouble.

Click to expand...

Many thanks for your post, kind words and advice.
I've been running a catch tank since I got the car in May of 2019.i was still getting sludge in the cam cover and oil filler cap, that's to be expected of course as these engines run a little too cool. The breather system is literally a joke, oil is thrown off the cam and I assume there is little or no baffling in the cam cover to stop oil running into the breather pipe and getting into the air cleaner box and further into the manifold, that along with condensation into said parts is a recipe for severe contamination to sensors, throttle and carbon on the backs of the inlet valves.
In fact I had the breather venting from before Christmas to free air via a long pipe fed down the back of the engine. I had the Map sensor out a few weeks ago and it was bone dry.
The car is still a little hesitant after a few drives today and has gone back a little since first thing today. I'm hoping the evap canister hasn't been ruined by the purge valve being stuck shut.
Certainly this car is having more issues than my 2014 lounge and this one is lower mileage.