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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Wow that's a bank breaker for me........ Pricey!!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Wow that's a bank breaker for me........ Pricey!!
I did have to sit down when they told me. My wife's only concern is if it is likely to go again as she tends to keep her cars for life, her last car before this was a 1999 Fiesta 1.25 who eventually sucummed to the old tin worm in 2019. So she is expecting 20 years out of the Panda 😬
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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Quote Originally Posted by Liteboy View Post
So the verdict is DMF and clutch plus light internal wear. Looking at 1500 to 2000 but as my wife says it's a lot cheaper than a new car and is a guaranteed repair. They are going to do a major service at the same time saving me a job 👍
Sorry to hear that.. thats the sort of news I dread

I was under the impression that all TA'S have a DMF..
lots of people on here think they dont..

If its 'optional' it might be worth 'opting out'

32k seems early.. but weve seen major failures at 10k
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

I thought the concensus was the EU5 85hp didn't have a DMF, but all bets are off on the 4x4. 2014 is right on the cusp of EU6 coming in.

All the 105bhps and I think those in the MiTo have one.

I'm hopeful my EU5 4x4 doesn't have one.

Sorry to hear your news OP
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Our Panda is early euro6 TA thus an early DMF our son has a 2011 500 TA with over 85K on the clock still on its original clutch even after he learned to drive in it 😬 so that's not a DMF. Reading up it seems they are very common in more modern cars of all makes. Supposedly gives a smoother power transfer but once it fails they are costly due to the only option of replacement.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #21
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Hi.
There is another reason for DMFs. This is one I found out when a Rover 75 owner. The BMW diesel unit had a DMF and some had fitted solid flywheels. The result in a few cases were broken crankshafts. One guy I remember said that the cranks couldn't take the vibration from the normal set up when pulling away and the DMF damped them reducing stresses on the crank.

Sounds logical then having one on a higher output TA.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Quote Originally Posted by Liteboy View Post
So the verdict is DMF and clutch plus light internal wear. Looking at 1500 to 2000
Who's quoting this? It seems a lot - a DMF isn't that expensive.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Who's quoting this? It seems a lot - a DMF isn't that expensive.
Wow.
So if we add in a service and the clutch there is still a labour charge of at least 1000.
So let's assume for easy calcs 10 hours labour, thats at least 100 an hour. To me that's a rip off.
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Don't these knacker the bellhousing too, given the low tolerances, so that's a consideration outside of a regular clutch/dmf change.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Quote Originally Posted by lunchbeers View Post
Don't these knacker the bellhousing too, given the low tolerances
This has been reported here on a number of occasions. Probably not a good idea to ignore the symptoms.

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
at least 100 an hour. To me that's a rip off.
I'd agree, but most franchised dealers of all marques charge at least that.

I also don't see this taking as long as 10 hours for an experienced mechanic with full main dealer service facilities and tools.

DMF's are a wear & tear item and on many cars are routinely replaced along with the clutch, but you'd reasonably expect to see at least 100k miles out of both. What's concerning to me is the relatively low mileages at which these are failing on Fiats; some of the cases reported here haven't even done a third of that mileage. This, when taken alongside all the uniair failures (another four figure job if done by a franchised dealer), is why I can't recommend buying a secondhand TA; IMO these are cars best bought new and traded away before the warranty runs out*.


*That said, I wouldn't want to bet on Fiat replacing a DMF under warranty, especially in the thitd year.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 1 Week Ago at 03:08.
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Quote Originally Posted by Liteboy View Post
So the verdict is DMF and clutch plus light internal wear. Looking at 1500 to 2000 but as my wife says it's a lot cheaper than a new car and is a guaranteed repair. They are going to do a major service at the same time saving me a job 👍
Ouch, almost worth the recovery costs to Royston! That's bad luck, my DMF/clutch replacement was in the order of 700 but at a specialist. If you are stuck with the dealer then I guess those prices are not too surprising given they will charging top dollar for the spares too. As you say guaranteed too (in so far as anyone will guarantee a clutch assembly. Bad luck.
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Quote Originally Posted by Panda IIs View Post
Ouch, almost worth the recovery costs to Royston! That's bad luck, my DMF/clutch replacement was in the order of 700 but at a specialist. If you are stuck with the dealer then I guess those prices are not too surprising given they will charging top dollar for the spares too. As you say guaranteed too (in so far as anyone will guarantee a clutch assembly. Bad luck.
Yep unfortunately stuck with main dealer pricing, the cost may be less as they quoted worse case scenario. We are not sure how long it has been failing but it got worse over 5 days very quickly. Reading up on DMF failures in general one of the reasons they fail is driving in too higher gear at slow speed and not changing down to accelerate, my wife tends to ignore the change up icon as it always wants you to change up too soon but we have no idea how previous owners drove it. It will be interesting to see if they have altered the DMF construction since our Panda was produced. Luckily we have money put by for things like this and ideally we would have not used the main dealer but that's how it goes sometimes.
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

I'm led to believe that these dmfs don't fail in the typical way, I've seen the centre bearing has failed, apparently as it's plastic, which then allows for some slop which causes the bellhousing damage.

Again, apparently later parts have solved this issue by using a metal bearing.

Normally, as @Liteboy says above its from loading the engine in too low a gear, perhaps as the TA has produces it's peak torque so low in the rev band then might be why it's more susceptible.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #29
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
This has been reported here on a number of occasions. Probably not a good idea to ignore the symptoms.



I'd agree, but most franchised dealers of all marques charge at least that.

I also don't see this taking as long as 10 hours for an experienced mechanic with full main dealer service facilities and tools.

DMF's are a wear & tear item and on many cars are routinely replaced along with the clutch, but you'd reasonably expect to see at least 100k miles out of both. What's concerning to me is the relatively low mileages at which these are failing on Fiats; some of the cases reported here haven't even done a third of that mileage. This, when taken alongside all the uniair failures (another four figure job if done by a franchised dealer), is why I can't recommend buying a secondhand TA; IMO these are cars best bought new and traded away before the warranty runs out*.


*That said, I wouldn't want to bet on Fiat replacing a DMF under warranty, especially in the thitd year.

One reason I will stick with my 1.2 Fire, proven reliability and a solid flywheel.
It's also quick enough for me and economic to run.
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Re: TwinAir Trekking engine more lumpy than normal

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
I also don't see this taking as long as 10 hours for an experienced mechanic with full main dealer service facilities and tools.
A heart transplant takes less time than that.
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