hi all got myself a new twin air panda cross 4x4 just coming up towards 400 miles on the clock now mostly short runs but the trip comp is showing average mileage of 20.2 but the instantaneous is showing 50/90 and 13 up hill never had a fiat before so no idea what these do mileage wise but it doesn't seem a lot even for an engine that's running cold my Peugeot 108 that i traded against this one was doing 38 / 42 on the same runs and my big old yank with the 5.7 v8 does 19 on the same runs lol

Welcome to the wonderful world of the TwinAir!

Lots of threads on here about disappointing (to put it mildly) TA fuel consumption.

I know, TL;DR, so here's a quick summary: it improves with time (say, after 5-8k miles), but is still lousy unless you drive gently at constant speeds, following the 'change up / change down indicator' like a zealot, feather the accelerator like you're an ornithologist treading on a dove, and avoid high revs, swift overtaking manoeuvres, town driving, etc. (I could add hills, but we don't have any of those in these parts, thank Christ )

After 55k miles, I can now get 50+ mpg on a tank if I follow the above strictures, but if I just drive it normally, I get high 30s at best.

Oh, and using the ECO button makes a small improvement, but totally ruins the driving experience.

Is this a fair comment? Although the twin air engine sounds nice when revved, max torque comes at just 1900 RPM, so it could be suggested that for most situations, no point revving past 2000 RPM? Almost Diesel-like, with earlier change-ups which might seem too early and sound like the engine is labouring.

Every review has shown that the TwinAir has always failed to achieve anything like the MPG Fiat hoped it would, and I think having been 'shown up' by the WLTP measurements (where it only saw 37 MPG for the 4x4 TwinAir, rather than a very optimistic 60+ that Fiat used to claim), that may be a key reason why Fiat quietly dropped it from all 500s and all Panda except the 4x4. (Because the 4x4 system adds extra weight, they had no choice but to continue with an engine with appalling economy figures, but one with more power than the 1.2 or new 'hybrid' alternatives)

For comparison, my 2018 4x4 but with the (heavier but more powerful) Euro 6 Diesel engine has averaged 56mpg from new (never reset the computer in 28000 miles, and driving 'spiritedly'). This too is less than Fiat advertised, but not by much. (They claimed 60.1 I think). This engine was also dropped after WLTP testing, which showed it fell well short of the low NOx Fiat claimed.

"Is this a fair comment?"

If you're referring to my post, then yes, as your second paragraph confirms.

gar074 said:

"Is this a fair comment?"

If you're referring to my post, then yes, as your second paragraph confirms.

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Sorry, I meant "Is it fair for me to comment", given I don't have a TwinAir...

I’m averaging around 45mpg in my nearly new TA with 3K on the clock. A far cry from the 80-90mpg I got in my Prius. That’s on the basis of mixed driving, but mainly on rural roads at 50-60mph. ECO-on and AC-off delivers some improvement to this, but not enough to justify the misery.

On the upside, I love the TA’s performance and character which suits the car so well, so I’m not whinging.

After 20k they free off nicely..
At 400 miles.. and in a UK winter.. yes it will be poor

DO USE THE ENGINES CHARACTER..

It 'freewheels' like you wouldnt believe

Our panda TA has just 'woken.up' now its crossed the 20k mark.. it was painful at 10k on purchase

well it has its upside then i can now say just nipping to shops i will take the corvette its more economical lol

Mine's averaging 39mpg but it is very hilly where I live and drive. In comparison we also have a Ford Focus 1 litre and that averages 44mpg.

Herts Hillhopper said:

Is this a fair comment? Although the twin air engine sounds nice when revved, max torque comes at just 1900 RPM, so it could be suggested that for most situations, no point revving past 2000 RPM? Almost Diesel-like, with earlier change-ups which might seem too early and sound like the engine is labouring.

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Yes, maximum torque is hit at 1900 rpm but it's not a peak - it plateaus after that. The curve is quite steep before 1900 rpm - there's not much torque at 1500 rpm and it will labour apart from in low gears. imo Even driving for economy it's best to rev it nearer to 2500rpm when accelerating, so that when you move up a gear, and revs drop, you're still in the meat of the torque.

TinyTurbo said:

Yes, maximum torque is hit at 1900 rpm but it's not a peak - it plateaus after that. The curve is quite steep before 1900 rpm - there's not much torque at 1500 rpm and it will labour apart from in low gears. imo Even driving for economy it's best to rev it nearer to 2500rpm when accelerating, so that when you move up a gear, and revs drop, you're still in the meat of the torque.

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Yup - that makes sense: go 'past the peak' a bit so that when you let the clutch up in the next gear you are still more or less at the 1900 point.

By the way, the torque graphs for the TwinAir can be seen here... https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/2019/2797070/fiat_panda_4x4_twinair_turbo_85.html - and the MultiJEt too - https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/2017/2259065/fiat_panda_1_3_multijet_ii_16v_95_4x4.html

gaz2313 said:

well it has its upside then i can now say just nipping to shops i will take the corvette its more economical lol

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Twinairs are certainly 'different'

I've had my punto for 8 years.. and love it

My wife hated it.. preferred her FIRE engined panda..
But since adapting to her Panda TA she LOVES the punto

Its got a wide ratio 6 speed.. fills in all the gaps visible in a 5 speed Panda's 'street gearing'

TinyTurbo said:

Yes, maximum torque is hit at 1900 rpm but it's not a peak - it plateaus after that. The curve is quite steep before 1900 rpm - there's not much torque at 1500 rpm and it will labour apart from in low gears. imo Even driving for economy it's best to rev it nearer to 2500rpm when accelerating, so that when you move up a gear, and revs drop, you're still in the meat of the torque.

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I intend, mainly, to drive like that, trying to stay around peak torque, 1900rpm ish. Although my 4x4 is a June 2018 car bought new it has still only done 7151 miles due to a number of interfering factors (covid etc) and it/I get around 32 to 44mpg in mixed driving (and not a lot of that!). As everyone says I'm sure it will improve as we climb to around 20k miles, I realise that does not correspond to Fiat's published (hoped for, optimistic??) mpg figures.
From MY point of view, however, the real purpose of the little beast is not mpg, practicality, though it has that in spades, reliability, price, size, etc, etc, it is FUN. It is (again in my humble opinion) unique in its ability to push on through snow, mud, daily abuse (you should see the state of my step daughters poor old Panda) and still put a smile on your face. The little TA motor is something rather special, don't just judge it on it's mpg.
I probably have not had as much fun in a little car, since rallying an 850 two stroke Saab back in the 1960's, except of course for my succession of little 2CVs that have come and gone over the last 40 odd years.
Depends what you need, of course, but if you already have a Panda, then grin and bear the mpg and smile at the fun factor

I certainly agree with Colin -- my 4x4 puts a smile on my face every time I go anywhere...That's why Im on my third one! (in 13 years)

Herts Hillhopper said:

I certainly agree with Colin -- my 4x4 puts a smile on my face every time I go anywhere...That's why Im on my third one! (in 13 years)

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Thanks HH (is it "Charlie"). Mine's got to last me 13 years at least, providing always I last that long!!

Motorcyclist Colin said:

Thanks HH (is it "Charlie"). Mine's got to last me 13 years at least, providing always I last that long!!

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Pete, not Charlie... The first of mine I got in 2007 (2005 car), changed in 2013 for an ex-demo low mileage (and new shape). Replaced 2018 because I was able to, and intend this one to be a 'keeper'. (There may be some here who will say 'there was a fourth'. there was, but I only had it seven weeks before it was written off, and I only drove it one week as I broke my arm – unrelated to the accident -- so I don't really count that one. It too was to be 'the keeper' and was the best specced of them all)

During lockdown I've just restored a 1950 Cyclemaster engine in a 1950 Hercules push bike. 32ccs or raw,throbbing power, and capable (it is said) of around 230 mpg.
It is not however the greatest of fun bikes but it is interesting.
After the war, people were looking for affordable motorised transport. Cyclemaster produced a rear wheel, capable of being fitted into an ordinary push bike, with virtually no other modification. This wheel contained, the fuel tank, a 32cc two stroke engine with minature carb. clutch and exhaust system. Swop your back wheels connect up the throttle lever and clutch, fit a number plate, put in about a pint of 20:1 two stroke petroil, and pedal off, drop the clutch and the mighty engine would roar. YOU WERE MOTORISED. Oh frajous day, calloo, calley, he chortled in his joy.

Sorry Pete, senile decay strikes again!

Motorcyclist Colin said:

During lockdown I've just restored a 1950 Cyclemaster engine in a 1950 Hercules push bike. 32ccs or raw,throbbing power, and capable (it is said) of around 230 mpg.
It is not however the greatest of fun bikes but it is interesting.
After the war, people were looking for affordable motorised transport. Cyclemaster produced a rear wheel, capable of being fitted into an ordinary push bike, with virtually no other modification. This wheel contained, the fuel tank, a 32cc two stroke engine with minature carb. clutch and exhaust system. Swop your back wheels connect up the throttle lever and clutch, fit a number plate, put in about a pint of 20:1 two stroke petroil, and pedal off, drop the clutch and the mighty engine would roar. YOU WERE MOTORISED. Oh frajous day, calloo, calley, he chortled in his joy.

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They were neat looking things. Course the modern equivalent doesn't need a number plate:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V1000W...43339820658187474fa0|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524

Motorcyclist Colin said:

Sorry Pete, senile decay strikes again!

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Youre not too bad
Charlie