Hi Folks,
First post, hope you can help.
2017 Panda Pop, 19K miles.
I had a problem a year ago, sitting at idle, engine warm, revs rise to 1500rpm and EMl goes on, tells me no hill start, no ABS etc, although I don't have hill start. Fault code 0101
Anyway, I removed the clutch switch, taped it in the pedal up position, all was good, replaced the switch after a week or so, all good.
It's started doing exactly the same again, this time code 0101 and 0106. I checked the MAP, all good voltages, but I replaced it anyway, still the same, so I re fitted my old clutch switch, still taped in the pedal up position, no change, but this time only code 0101. put the plug back on the replaced clutch switch, still the same.
Switch engine off, restart, fine, for about 20 seconds, then same again 1500revs and warning lights EML too.
Could it possibly be yet another duff clutch switch?. Is there any way to check them?.
Any help gratefully received.
Thanks,
Alan.

Well, to answer one of my own questions, I stripped the old clutch switch, it's a simple potentiometer. readings from roughly 5.2K ohms to 9.8K ohms.
Seems there was nothing wrong with it?.
More and more confusing, perhaps the clutch switch wasn't the problem, however, it certainly fixed it for 8 months.
Alan.

So often these 'random' errors happen in the winter. The self-check the car does at first switch-on is key here. If the battery voltage is low, that in turn reduces the 'level' of signal picked up from sensors (those that are voltage/current/resistance sensors) and can lead to faults showing.

It cured itself apparently? - maybe during warmer weather where the battery could hold charge better. But now, in winter, the faults reappear as the battery again suffers from the cold.

At least six hours after a drive (so the battery settles back to a level charge), take a volt reading across the battery terminals. 12,6v = heathy battery. 12.4v = 50% discharged battery. 12.2V or less = knackered battery. The ability to hold charge is reduced by temperature too, but a 'good' battery can still hold 12,6v over a cold night.

2017 car so battery should be OK if used regularly. But only 19k miles in three years: battery may not be so happy as either stood idle fro long periods or only had short drives so not always reached full charge? (Note: the Panda alternator is intelligent, and charges more when car on 'overrun' and less when engine power needed at wheels, so maybe only charging for say 30-40% of a journey).

Check the battery as the very first call. Before trying to take any fault codes. If a new battery is fitted, needs to be at least 80% when first connected, and needs a food drive to let all the sensors 're-establish' the normal values.

So yes, might be the clutch switch, but note likely the cold weather and a tired battery.

Hi,
Firstly, thanks for the reply.
You may be on to something here, I checked the battery first thing this morning, 11.8V, it's cold here in Scotland.
The first time this happened was on the way back from the airport after the car being left in a car park for two weeks, and yes, the car is only used for short journeys in our pandemic world.
The battery is on charge now, it has never been on a trickle charger before
I'll give it a good charge, check the voltage, and take it for a drive. I'll check the voltage again tomorrow morning, if it's low I'll purchase another battery.
I had no idea the alternator was "intelligent"
The other factors to take into account, I drive like an old man, mainly because I am an old man!, I rarely rev it hard, the running lights are on all the time, and up here the headlamps are used a lot at this time of year, along with heater blowers and heated rear windows, all contributing to a discharged battery.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks,
Alan.

The alternator can provide up to 70amps so even with everything on it has plenty in reserve.

Well, battery charged up, still the same, I have another car, so I'll take the fully charged battery off that and jump it onto the Panda battery later. I have cleared the codes, the EML is off. When idling the battery is showing 14.4V, switch it off and slowly, about 15 minutes, the voltage goes down to about 12.8V.
Switch on the headlights, rear window demist, heater blower, turn the key, starts instantly, no sign the battery is low at all.
I had two codes flagging up. 0101 and 0106. Once warm, the engine will idle for perhaps 30 seconds to a minute, then it goes into limp mode, EML light on, 1500 RPM no throttle response, switch it off, immediately start it again, and it idles fine, EML light still on, maximum 30 seconds later, it does exactly the same, ad infinitum. hhhmmm.
Alan.

Bison said:

revs rise to 1500rpm

Click to expand...

That tells us you have a vacuum leak on the air intake. Check the "breather", it tends to crack, check carefully all around those hoses. The MAP helps you if you can read the information, on idle the manifold pressure should be below 300 mBar. If it's higher, there's a leak.

I have resigned myself to getting underneath it tomorrow to have a look at the small breather pipe, remove and check it. I can feel around the back of the manifold and find it, but I'll have to remove it from underneath the car.
I have removed it at the air filter end and blown through it to make sure it was clear, it was, some slight resistance. I would guess if there's a problem it must be because it was fitted incorrectly at the factory, there really is no sign of even dirt under the bonnet. It will be a good thing to do, I guess there could even be water in there from all the short journeys.
I shall report in tomorrow.
Thanks,
Alan.

Hi
Let's not forget that the supply to sensors is in the main not 12 volts, its not a direct feed from the battery. The supplies to sensors are either 5v or 3.3v, regulated by the various ECUs. If there is other faults then errors show up. Lambda sensors have a heating element that is fed from 12v as an aside.
The OPs issue again could be an ECU issue, bad or corroded connectors.
Incidentally a low battery say at 12v or just below won't give errors in the system it's when you try and start the car as the voltage drops below 10v then the regulated supplies drop, a clicking solenoid on the starter plays havoc with electronics due spikes in the supply.

OP's issue Trevor?
Alan.

Original problems?

Bison said:

Hi Folks,
First post, hope you can help.
2017 Panda Pop, 19K miles.
I had a problem a year ago, sitting at idle, engine warm, revs rise to 1500rpm and EMl goes on, tells me no hill start, no ABS etc, although I don't have hill start. Fault code 0101
Anyway, I removed the clutch switch, taped it in the pedal up position, all was good, replaced the switch after a week or so, all good.
It's started doing exactly the same again, this time code 0101 and 0106. I checked the MAP, all good voltages, but I replaced it anyway, still the same, so I re fitted my old clutch switch, still taped in the pedal up position, no change, but this time only code 0101. put the plug back on the replaced clutch switch, still the same.
Switch engine off, restart, fine, for about 20 seconds, then same again 1500revs and warning lights EML too.
Could it possibly be yet another duff clutch switch?. Is there any way to check them?.
Any help gratefully received.
Thanks,
Alan.

Click to expand...

Hello, I have EXACTLY the same isue on a 2014 Panda Pop I have just been Sold (nasty people) the car is very clean 21000 miles, and is giving the same faults idle jumps to 1500 absolutely no response from Accelerator, switch off and on and away it goes again, slight rugh running at 1800 rpm and some hesitance on pulling away, clutch switch has been left well alone, I do hope someone can help, its wasting an otherwise lovely car !! generating codes P0106 and P0101 I can clear them then they come back, the 1500 rpm revving is a warm engine problem aswell.

Hi,
Not sure if I should feel relieved that I'm not the only person having this problem or not!. HA!.
I think the clutch switch may have been a red herring, when I disconnected it the idle speed may have gone up slightly so the fault was masked?
Tomorrow I'm going to check that engine breather pipe fully. I have the battery on charge now. When I've done that I'm going to remove the neg terminal from the battery to reset the ECU, then take it for a drive.
If that doesn't help I'll try to figure out how the ECU plugs come off, and spray the insides with electrical cleaner.
If that doesn't work, well, thinking hat back on, or hope someone on the forum will come up with something.
Alan.

Oh and that flat spot at low revs?, me too, from the day I collected the car from new.

Yes, I was wondering if possibly faulty ECU, my other panda and my previous one both developed ECU faults (very common) but were giving cylinder misfire codes, both fixed with 'virginised' ECUs but I can find no mention of this as a known ECU fault, so Ill keep looking, please do share if you find a resolution, I assure you I will.

Hi.
It "could" be the throttle position sensor. Get the codes read by a dealer or MES, or even AlfaObd for an accurate diagnoses.

Well, the TPS was definitely on the radar. I had a new Suzuki V Strom which would stall and run rough now and then, it also had a bad flat spot, for no reason, the TPS had been set from the factory to make the engine run lean, it was adjustable, once it was adjusted the bike ran very well, no flat spot.
Is the Panda TPS adjustable though?, looks like it's not to me. I thought perhaps the TPS would have had a code thrown up if it were faulty?.
Alan.

Bison said:

OP's issue Trevor?
Alan.

Click to expand...

Original Poster

Bison said:

Is the Panda TPS adjustable though?, looks like it's not to me. I thought perhaps the TPS would have had a code thrown up if it were faulty?.
Alan.

Click to expand...

No, it is not adjustable. The butterfly has to close completely when you don't accelerate and the adjustment is made by the IACV (idle air control valve), it opens and gives to engine the needed amount of air on idle.
TPS does not throw a code unless it brakes and sends no signal to the ECU. If TPS misreads the position (gives othet voltage than the actual one for one position of the butterfly) ECU takes that signal for good and gives gas acording to that reading. If reading is wrong, results bad fuel/air mixture.
You can test if TPS works, very easy, in this way with the help of a multimetre (add "htt p s. in front of the link):
://youtu.be/_skVHdgtMTU How to test TPS
The MAF can be tested in the same way
://youtu.be/p0ocaDmcAIM How to test MAF

Here is a good guide on how to clean the IACV
://youtu.be/y0ZSGjYim78 TB and IACV (idle air control valve) clean
but I don't think you should have to be so extreme and take the IACV out of throttle body, you can use a piped cleaning spray and spray good at the tip of IACV and inside TB everywhere.

But before any of that Bison, you have to find the crack that gives you air vacuum leak. There is a leak so more air than is needed gets inside the manifold, the MAP reads that pressure and ECU injects more fuel acording to the amount of air you have. To make it a correct mixture ECU adds fuel, there is where the revv comes from.

Folks, I suspect the fact that two cars are displaying the exact same symptoms means that the issue is easily repeatable and most likely electronic. Unless the vacuum/breather hose fault is commonplace, it is in my view unlikely to be the cause of two identical problems - air leaks are too variable for that.

I've had ICVs fail on two cars before and aside from a decent clean and making sure the connections are sound, the only way to confirm is to try a known good one and see what happens.