First time she's let me down

I was heading out for my weekly late-evening supermarket skirmish, having last gone out in her yesterday (when all seemed OK). She started on the button as usual, and I left her to idle for a minute or so, as there was frost on the windscreen (the external temp gauge read -1C). Then the engine just gently died, and wouldn't restart. When I tried to restart, the starter sounded different than usual - a note or two lower in pitch, so turning over slightly slower than normal, perhaps? and very regular. But not a hint of a cough or splutter, which makes me wonder whether it might be something electronic rather than mechanical. There are no warning lights or error messages showing.

Any suggestions of what to look at? (I should add that I refuelled yesterday).

Check every single fuse very carefully.

Also when you turn on the ignition before starting the car, do you hear the fuel pump priming in the back of the car.

AndyRKett said:

Also when you turn on the ignition before starting the car, do you hear the fuel pump priming in the back of the car.

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Indeed

And.. when its doing that..

Check to see which dash symbols light

And.. what then goes out


How many miles since fuelling..?

If less than 10..

Chance the station had mis.fuelled their tanks.. it does happen

In days gone by I've had fuel that's been somewhat contaminated with water or from condensation in the tank. I often wonder about the Panda's fuel filler whether water can get in.
The trick in days gone by was to add a litre of methylated spirit to the tank and this stops the fuel water droplets freezing and blocking the fuel line.
I'd wait for the temperature to rise but give the battery a charge in the meantime. I assume you'd still hear the pump even if ice was blocking the fuel line.

murphyv310 said:

In days gone by I've had fuel that's been somewhat contaminated with water or from condensation in the tank. I often wonder about the Panda's fuel filler whether water can get in.
The trick in days gone by was to add a litre of methylated spirit to the tank and this stops the fuel water droplets freezing and blocking the fuel line.
I'd wait for the temperature to rise but give the battery a charge in the meantime. I assume you'd still hear the pump even if ice was blocking the fuel line.

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The modern panda has not petrol fuel filter (at least in the UK market and I suspect most of Europe)
Other a mesh gauze type device on the pump pickup buts that more to filter and solids then remove contamination

The modern Panda has an in tank filter. No fuel injection car uses only a gauze filter as injectors need a micron filter. The issue with water contamination is droplets freezing along bends in the fuel pipe and blocking flow, either in the tank or otherwise. It will be interesting to see if the Op's engine has restarted now since temperatures have risen.

I think Trevor wins the prize on this one! After a looooong pull on the starter this morning, she fired up and ran smoothly from the start. No further reoccurrence of the stalling. So fuel starvation looks like a good bet, and with the freezing conditions last night, ice in the fuel line seems the most likely explanation. I reckon that's worth a Gold Star!

This evening, the temp has dropped sharply again, and having failed to do my weekly shop yesterday, I'm shortly going to venture out again (my nearest supermarket is virtually deserted from 7.30 onwards, so relatively Covid-safe). It will be interesting to see if she plays up again.

Meanwhile, many thanks for the suggestions of what might have been the cause, all of which were highly plausible, and greatly appreciated.

Shove a can of WD 40 in the back too just in case its a moisture issue. You may be able to get going with a squirt here and there. Have noted a lot of condensation under Panda bonnets in cold conditions. I must follow my own advice on this too!

Just occurs, I have almost the same issue with my propane powered cooker. Changing the gas bottle has cured it but changing the regulator 3 times and the supply pipe made no difference. Now I have to do battle with my gas supplier. Hoping they will swap this bottle and send it back to Calor. I am very please its running again too.

For those following this mini-saga, tonight's supermarket skirmish (again in sub-zero conditions) was safely accomplished without a hiccup. And I gave the Wee Yellow Beastie a proper Italian tune-up on the way home, just to make sure. One of the virtues of living very close to a Roman Road is that, even in wintry conditions, there's a nice straight stretch along which to blow away the cobwebs (or icicles, as the case may be)

My TA's cold starting problem has now reappeared with a vengeance, and not just in sub-zero temperatures (it's 11° here today). Same behaviour every time - it starts instantly, runs fine for 30 seconds or so, and then the engine loses power and gently dies, and won't restart. After several loooong pulls on the starter, it reluctantly ch-ch-chugs back into life (sometimes refusing to rev above 3500 rpm for a few seconds), and then runs normally until the next cold start, when the fault reoccurs. There's no consistency in the warning lights. Sometimes the dreaded orange triangle of doom pops up, and on one occasion, the engine management warning light. All warning lights disappear following a warm restart.

So, I don't think it's water/ice in the fuel or the fuel-line, as I originally thought, but it still feels like a fuel starvation issue. Having read some of the threads on TwinAir gremlins, I wonder whether it might be a faulty O2 sensor? (I came across a great post by Goudrons on that, but I can't find it again!)

Any thoughts?

What were your MOT emission figures?

Might just give a bit of direction..

Have you check what temps the ECU is 'seeing'
Our 2013 runs rough if just 'halfwarm'

varesecrazy said:

What were your MOT emission figures?

Might just give a bit of direction..

Have you check what temps the ECU is 'seeing'
Our 2013 runs rough if just 'halfwarm'

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From mid-October:

Fast idle

CO 0.03
HC 23
Lambda 1.010

So nothing to frighten the horses there.

We had an issue starting our 2014 TA Trekking a few weeks ago , it had been standing unused for 11 days as my wife was on leave. When she went to start him up the turn over was sluggish and seemed to fire on one cylinder with a strange sound. Engine warning light on and then died. I did eventually get the engine running after some trying. After a worrying drive to work but started OK after 8hrs. I stuck him on my ctek trickle charger and this took ages to get through its sequence to a full charge. I ordered a new battery to replace the factory original which is now fitted and so far he is running fine. Could be something similar as batteries do fail and cold weather does affect them.

I guess the battery's a possibility - I'm still on my original one - but it seems unlikely to me. She fires up fine initially, but then dies and will only restart after several long attempts, during which the starter motor seems to turn over OK. But I'll charge the battery up and see if that makes any difference.

My 'yardstick' here is my punto TA

still on its original 2012 battery.. it gets laid up for weeks.. no issues

The punto Ive owned from new.. the panda is a short ownership..
2 years of reliable transport.. BUT it has the lousy running when half warm unchanged from 10k miles to 20k ( had new plugs and a 'scan' at 16k service)

My MES isnt new enough for the panda..

Liteboy said:

We had an issue starting our 2014 TA Trekking a few weeks ago , it had been standing unused for 11 days as my wife was on leave. When she went to start him up the turn over was sluggish and seemed to fire on one cylinder with a strange sound. Engine warning light on and then died. I did eventually get the engine running after some trying. After a worrying drive to work but started OK after 8hrs. I stuck him on my ctek trickle charger and this took ages to get through its sequence to a full charge. I ordered a new battery to replace the factory original which is now fitted and so far he is running fine. Could be something similar as batteries do fail and cold weather does affect them.

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Is there nothing a new battery on a Panda doesn’t fix?

I guess I'll find out soon enough. Confidence is not high at the present time!

gar074 said:

I guess I'll find out soon enough. Confidence is not high at the present time!

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A bit like a new exhaust.. a new battery can restore something you were unaware you had 'lost' with such gradual degradation